DT466E Front Cover Removal and inspection

[JT20]

Been busy and haven’t got too much further. Got some more parts ordered, just got to go pick them up this week. The family has been sick for the past week.

I’m going to try my existing front cover, cleaned it up and got it painted along with a new wear sleeve on the front balancer and seal on the oil pump housing.

I know the color isn’t a perfect match but it’s close enough for me.

I started working on drilling the hole out in the high pressure pump, going to put a 10mm bolt in it. Hopefully that will hold.

I ordered new front motor mounts mine were shot, dose anyone know the torque spec on the two bolts that go through the mounts. It’s not in the international books. I guess it goes with the bus body, but I have no torque specs on the bus body yet.

[laegion]

Originally Posted by JT20

I ordered new front motor mounts mine were shot, dose anyone know the torque spec on the two bolts that go through the mounts. It’s not in the international books. I guess it goes with the bus body, but I have no torque specs on the bus body yet.

The way I understand it (and of course I'm not an expert so I may be wrong) but it seems as International is where the vehicle vin comes from and what I've read that Internstional/navistar produces the front cowl/engine/transmission/drive train/brake system, and the frame/chassis. The only part that's produced by the coachworks would be the body mounted on the frame and the drivers area and associated electrical.
Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'm guessing there is a separate chassis manual and what you have is strictly the engine manual?

[Mountain Gnome]

Originally Posted by JT20

dose anyone know the torque spec on the two bolts that go through the mounts

güdentite

[JT20]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

güdentite

Lol I had to google that word, yeah definitely good and tight lol.

[JT20]

Originally Posted by laegion

The way I understand it (and of course I'm not an expert so I may be wrong) but it seems as International is where the vehicle vin comes from and what I've read that Internstional/navistar produces the front cowl/engine/transmission/drive train/brake system, and the frame/chassis. The only part that's produced by the coachworks would be the body mounted on the frame and the drivers area and associated electrical.
Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'm guessing there is a separate chassis manual and what you have is strictly the engine manual?

Yes I have the engine manual, I have no manual on the bus. Nothing in the engine manual covers those bolts.

[laegion]

Originally Posted by JT20

Yes I have the engine manual, I have no manual on the bus. Nothing in the engine manual covers those bolts.

Have you tried searching for the specs on the truck equivalent from International? the 4700 I believe it is.

[Mountain Gnome]

Seriously, good and tight is about it on a steel bolt.


Bolting into an aluminum casting (motor head, tranny body), it is very important to know the torque specs, lest you strip the threads.


bolting on a motor head, or cover plate, or water pump, it is important to get everything tightened evenly, so nothing warps.



Same with anything that has a gasket, especially a rubber one like an oil pan: needs to be even.


But a motor mount, not so important. Snug the nut/bolt down tight. If it has a split lock-washer, seat the washer, then a bit tighter. Same with a flange-nut that is ribbed on the mating surface. If it has flat washers, just add a drop of lock-tite thread sealant (weak or medium strength) and snug it down.


I don't even think you could get a torque wrench on my motor mounts - no space for it. I just replaced my air-compressor. Again, no space for a torque wrench (or any kind of ratchet) to even fit on most of the bolts - had to use open-end wrenches for the most important ones. When the bolt/nut stops turning, and the torque you need to apply becomes exponentially greater, quickly approaching a vertical line when graphed (infintely greater), it is good and tight.

[JT20]

Thanks for the information. Yeah I don’t think those two bolts are extremely important for exact torque numbers. I will make sore there tight, I’ll probably take them to 80 pounds, I know the other bolts that were holding that support in was torqued to 80-110 pounds when I checked them before I removed it.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by JT20

Thanks for the information. Yeah I don’t think those two bolts are extremely important for exact torque numbers. I will make sore there tight, I’ll probably take them to 80 pounds, I know the other bolts that were holding that support in was torqued to 80-110 pounds when I checked them before I removed it.

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...ed-Torque.aspx

And what Mountain Gnome said about access, sometimes you can't get a torque wrench on a bolt so you guesstimate. If you have to use a typical length combination open end/box wrench 80 ft. lb. is a lot - at least for my weak, old man's arms.

[s2mikon]

There are charts you can use to look up torque values based upon bolt size. They are on line.

[JT20]

Thanks guys! I looked at the link Oldyeller posted and will check a few sites before I torque them down, I can access them pretty good right now.

I did get the front cover on, it was dark by the time I got it fastened down, so didn’t get any good pics.

I tapped the bolts in the HPOP and took them from 8mm to a 10mm, torqued them to 20 pounds. Hopefully they hold.

I guess the next step is to drop the oil pan, replace the pan gasket and the pickup tube gasket that bolts to the timing cover.

I’ll look up in there while the pan and is off and hopefully can inspect some things before I put it back on.

[EastCoastCB]

You're a friggin hero, man. Congrats!

[laegion]

Originally Posted by JT20

Thanks for the information. Yeah I don’t think those two bolts are extremely important for exact torque numbers. I will make sore there tight, I’ll probably take them to 80 pounds, I know the other bolts that were holding that support in was torqued to 80-110 pounds when I checked them before I removed it.

I was going to say, if you can't find anything more specific; somewhere between 60-80ft/lbs seems reasonable considering we're talking about a 500+ ft/lb producing diesel that weighs in the neighborhood of 1400lbs dry....some might think that's really tight but these motors seem to vibrate a lot, I wouldn't trust it to just lock-tite and snug bolts myself. Although I would definitely use lock-tite.

[laegion]

Originally Posted by JT20

I did get the front cover on, it was dark by the time I got it fastened down, so didn’t get any good pics.

I tapped the bolts in the HPOP and took them from 8mm to a 10mm, torqued them to 20 pounds. Hopefully they hold.

No helicoils?

You made awesome progress! I'm not extremely looking forward to the first time I have to dig into my DT like that. but it will probably be sooner than later as it looks like my air compressor has more than a normal amount of oil coming out of it into the air tank.

[EastCoastCB]

One thing I just thought of-
According to the service manual you're supposed to replace a lot of the bolts with new ones. IDK if that's just a money grab or if they're actually a one time use fastener.

[s2mikon]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

One thing I just thought of-
According to the service manual you're supposed to replace a lot of the bolts with new ones. IDK if that's just a money grab or if they're actually a one time use fastener.

They may be self sealing bolts. Used to keep coolant and oil apart.

[JT20]

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback! It definitely helps keep me going.

I did replace both idler gear bolts, some of the inner timing cover bolts, all of the outer timing cover bolts except for two on the top right, and I replaced three screws on the the cam gear timing disk. Bought new bolts for the air compressor as well. All the bolts I bought was at least 10.9 grade.

I got the lower engine mount bolts that go through the timing cover torqued down to 284 this evening, that’s what the book said on those.

Can’t find the torque specs for the alternator bracket, the international book says to use red lock tight, but doesn’t give the foot pounds on it.

[laegion]

Originally Posted by JT20

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback! It definitely helps keep me going.

I did replace both idler gear bolts, some of the inner timing cover bolts, all of the outer timing cover bolts except for two on the top right, and I replaced three screws on the the cam gear timing disk. Bought new bolts for the air compressor as well. All the bolts I bought was at least 10.9 grade.

I got the lower engine mount bolts that go through the timing cover torqued down to 284 this evening, that’s what the book said on those.

Can’t find the torque specs for the alternator bracket, the international book says to use red lock tight, but doesn’t give the foot pounds on it.

284? Damn...I'm going to have to get a new torque wrench before I attempt opening up my engine...I think mine only goes up to like 120...

[JT20]

Well bad news guys, three bolts in the timing cover that holds the oil pump wouldn’t tighten down, they spun, two of them are in the rear cover and one of them are in the front.



So even if I wanted to use Heli coils I would have to disassemble the timing covers, get another timing cover gasket kit and another upper idler bolt.



I was close to getting it back together but it looks like I’m going to have to pull everything back apart.

[ABBus]

Do you know why these bolts spun? Over-torqued (maybe an error in the books)?