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Old 06-01-2022, 06:28 PM   #1
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DT466e sputter/losing power while driving

My 2005 DT466e has a sputter and loses power for a fraction of a second when going down the road. It idles fine with no sputter. No DTCs are being thrown.

Servicemaxx data shows that for a half to full second during these sputters the ICP delivered is not keeping up with ICP desired. HPOP appears to be capable of putting out desired pressure. I've replaced the IPR and pigtail with a genuine International part already. I've ordered a new ICP sensor as well and will try that next.

My mechanic friend thinks it may be the pucks leaking. I'm concerned the electronics in the HPOP may be shot, hence the delay for pressure when asked.
We're 1600 miles away from the bus and the storage yard where it's at I can only do simple repairs/diagnostics. Anything requiring me to open up the valve cover would require a shop visit... so I'd like to rule out any simple things first.

I thought I'd ask the collective if anyone's seen this before or has any other troubleshooting ideas. Thanks in advance



In the graphs the green line is ICP Desired and the dotted black line is ICP Delivered.











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Old 06-01-2022, 06:47 PM   #2
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when was the last time the filters were changed?
can you read pressures before and after the filters?
how long has it set without running or did you idle it every now and then?
do you use biocide in your setting vehicle fuel?
how much fuel was in the tank when parked?
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
when was the last time the filters were changed?
can you read pressures before and after the filters?
how long has it set without running or did you idle it every now and then?
do you use biocide in your setting vehicle fuel?
how much fuel was in the tank when parked?
All good questions and all unknown. I just got it from the school district on gov auction last month. According to the district (for what its worth) it was used sparingly as a training bus the last few years and on its last run the driver reported power loss issues, then they listed it. They wouldn't give me much more info than that, wouldn't even tell me the elapsed time between its last training run and being listed for auction.

It's at 3/4 of a tank (~75/100 gal). I don't suspect fuel based on the engine diag data, but won't hurt to replace the filter. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to fuel pressure gauges to check fuel pressures. The low pressure fuel pump has been changed at some point as it's no longer blue. Don't know when though. The primer knob is stiff so I think we've got good pressure, at least at idle.

The oil is pretty clean and full. The oil filter looks to be fairly new so I suspect it's been changed within the last year and can't have more than a few hundred miles on it... At least based on the accumulated dirt on the filter housing compared to the rest of the engine and undercarriage
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:36 PM   #4
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the primer knob is stiff?
could be a bad o ring on the primer knob itself?
i know that one from an early duramax with the hand primer on the top of the fuel filter.
my fix was different than most and that truck is at 500,000 plus now.
that is a company truck that left me stranded more than once and it ended up being the fuel filter housing with hand primer pump on top O-ring?
all that got fixed and re-located in a motel parking lot after it stranded me for the 4th time.
nobody else would drive it and the company sent me out of town with it.
it broke i fixed it on there dime.
long story short.
sometimes its the simple things.
while the motor is running take a spray bottle with bubbles and spray it on all your fuel connections whether suction or pressure.
suction will pull the soap in (leak) pressure will bubble like dish soap (leak).
a spray bottle with a dawn dish soap solution heavy on the soap side will tell you alot. a diesel does not make vaccum so no vaccum lines to worry about?
unless a vaccum pump was added for stupid **** that was working fine as it was on electrical.
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:39 PM   #5
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the primer knob is stiff?
.
Sorry, by that I meant that when I try to use the primer knob there is resistance indicating that the fuel is properly primed.
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:52 PM   #6
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sorry sir but even on equipment that rarely needs hand primed until i forget and run it out of fuel.
long story short.
if it hasnt been ran in awhile that primer button o ring doesnt really get lubricated because the fuel when running runs right past it.
not saying this is your issue? just something to check.
i have had more than one kick my butt for sucking in air
because of that.
maybe someone else will chime in with there experience.
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:57 PM   #7
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All good. Sorry if I came off argumentative, I really do want "simple" suggestions so I'll definitely check it out. I'm really hoping it's something simple like that and not in the rail or the HPOP itself!!
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Old 06-01-2022, 08:06 PM   #8
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know way i thought you were argumentive hell i caint even spell it?
i am just asking questions to keep this thread towards the top so some of the others will respond with there wisdom
so you can pull data but you dont know what it means?
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Old 06-01-2022, 08:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
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so you can pull data but you dont know what it means?
Haha, yep. I'm a computer nerd who got a CDL in college as I could make more money driving transit buses than doing Tier 1 information technology help desk as a student.

That led to driving party buses for extra cash after college which led to eventually buying a party bus business. I got a hard and fast education in diesel engines at that point as I had absolutely no mechanical background whatsoever before that.

My friend is a big rig mechanic and has taught me a lot, so I know a few things based on what he's taught me about how a diesel engine actually works... Plus lessons leaned the hard way over the last 5 years.

So I can pull and analyze the engine data. I know theoretically how the huei system in the 7.6 works. Translating the diagnostic data to a fix though is not my strong suit... Implementing fixes gets even more challenging.
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Old 06-01-2022, 08:50 PM   #10
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ok never been a computer guy? my kids have to help more often then not.
i try to keep work seperate from home but get in a bind alot o times.
with the computer.
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:40 PM   #11
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About the first thing you do on diesel with power loss problems is that you replace the fuel filters. First thing, then if you still have problems, you troubleshoot.
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Old 06-02-2022, 04:18 AM   #12
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How many miles on this engine? Cadillackid mentioned some time back that the HEUI pump on the DT466e tends to fail around 150K (mine died recently at 158K). But hopefully that's not your problem.
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Old 06-02-2022, 07:47 AM   #13
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HPOP is not fuel.. its oil. . if you sre seeing your ICP desired and ICP actual part ways then its an oil pressure issue.. the engine uses High pressure oil to actuate the injectors.. the HPOP needs to supply pressure And Volume both.. The main Lube oil pump fills the HPOP reservoire .. if the HPOP reservoire goes dry the engine will sputter and die.. you might notice a lowering of your dash oil P gauge if this is the case.. (but its very rare)..


in my case (T444E Gen 1 HEUI) my HPOP couldnt make the volume and pressure needed under heavy Loads.. foot to the floor hauling ass.. id watch the desired and actual separate, then it would set a code 333 and id have power loss till I lifted off the pedal.. then it ran a reduced power mode until i cycled the key...



I replaced my HPOP with an adrenaline HPOP.. and now even with bigger injectors and a tuner she stays right in there.. following real closely..
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Old 06-02-2022, 11:01 AM   #14
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Looks like your ipr is slow reacting. Pull it and see if it's contaminated with metal. If it's not. Change oil, add hotshots stiction eliminator, drive it for an hour or so, and see if it's solved. If it doesn't solve it, replace the valve.

If it is contaminated with metal, your issue just got real expensive.
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Old 06-02-2022, 11:07 AM   #15
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With internationals, the pump is fixed displacement, so as long as the ipr command isn't maxed, the pump is making enough volume and is likely fine. When they start to wear, you'll see ipr command maxed, but with low pressure/slow to build pressure.

I like to watch rpm troubleshooting these things too, as fuel/oil demand varies with load and rpm.
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Old 06-02-2022, 11:56 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
With internationals, the pump is fixed displacement, so as long as the ipr command isn't maxed, the pump is making enough volume and is likely fine. When they start to wear, you'll see ipr command maxed, but with low pressure/slow to build pressure.

I like to watch rpm troubleshooting these things too, as fuel/oil demand varies with load and rpm.

wouldnt the pump fail to make volume is there is excessive wear in the pump bores? it couldnt supply oil at volume due to blowby?



I do like the idea that the IPR may be slow..
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:42 PM   #17
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wouldnt the pump fail to make volume is there is excessive wear in the pump bores? it couldnt supply oil at volume due to blowby?



I do like the idea that the IPR may be slow..
Correct, but if the pump wasn't making enough volume, you'd see higher ipr commanded, to try and compensate for the volume/pressure loss. That'd be especially true at higher loads and higher injection pressures, as your worn pump's losses would be most evident then.

His ipr looks normal to me, but the icp seems delayed and playing catchup to desired icp. That delay doesn't seem to have a relationship to load/pressure, as it occurred several times with varying load levels. I'm inferring that he has a positive correlation between load% and the app% he has displayed. Very rarely does that not actually happen.

I'm also going with the cheapest route, as an ipr is much cheaper then an hpop, and we often times will replace it when replacing an hpop.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:54 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Correct, but if the pump wasn't making enough volume, you'd see higher ipr commanded, to try and compensate for the volume/pressure loss. That'd be especially true at higher loads and higher injection pressures, as your worn pump's losses would be most evident then.

His ipr looks normal to me, but the icp seems delayed and playing catchup to desired icp. That delay doesn't seem to have a relationship to load/pressure, as it occurred several times with varying load levels. I'm inferring that he has a positive correlation between load% and the app% he has displayed. Very rarely does that not actually happen.

I'm also going with the cheapest route, as an ipr is much cheaper then an hpop, and we often times will replace it when replacing an hpop.
Thanks for advice, all. I already replaced the IPR... Twice actually. Aftermarket part first which made issues worse then with a genuine international part. The video and data above are on the new IPR.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:55 PM   #19
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How many miles on this engine? Cadillackid mentioned some time back that the HEUI pump on the DT466e tends to fail around 150K (mine died recently at 158K). But hopefully that's not your problem.
250k. No record available from the school if/when it was replaced
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:57 PM   #20
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About the first thing you do on diesel with power loss problems is that you replace the fuel filters. First thing, then if you still have problems, you troubleshoot.
I suspect the fuel filters been changed recently as the oil appears very clean and the oil filter housing is also pretty clean so looks like it was recently serviced. I'll try changing it again though, just to be safe.
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