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Old 04-30-2021, 11:08 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 29
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
DT466E Stock Boost

Hey crew, my 2002 DT466E 250HP HT is posting 16lbs of boost and Iím feeling like that is a bit low. Iím reading it from a scan gauge that came with the bus and the bus has 135k on the dial.

I have not swapped the boost sensor, but could, jus thought Iíd ask. I have not pulled the intake piping off the turbo and checked for wheel play yet, but any other thoughts are appreciated.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:43 PM   #2
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Location: Montana/Texas
Posts: 659
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Crown by Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
Rated Cap: 16
That does seem low. I have a 230HP standard torque DT466E with 225,000 miles and I see around 21-24 PSI of boost at high RPM/load...

Are you getting a 'Warn engine' light? Or only low boost?

John
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:59 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
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Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbloem1974 View Post
That does seem low. I have a 230HP standard torque DT466E with 225,000 miles and I see around 21-24 PSI of boost at high RPM/load...

Are you getting a 'Warn engine' light? Or only low boost?

John
No engine warning light, replaced ICP IRP, runs and idles smooth.

Only thoughts are pressure sensor, hose or turbo related. I guess that the wastegate may be opening early or not fully closed?
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:31 AM   #4
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Year: 1998
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
Rated Cap: 16
Yea, if you haven't replaced the MAP sensor (located on the top of the valve cover, closer to the rear of the engine) do that one too...
I dont have any experience with wastewater as I have a non-wastegated turbo, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to double-check all the hoses...maybe a small leak somewhere that is preventing proper boost?
Hopefully @cadillackid can chime in as he is a smart dude and I bet would have better insights than I! ;)

John
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:32 AM   #5
Bus Geek
 
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I thought the HT units ran lower boost as they fuel Heabvy in the lower RPM ranges and ran actually a alightly smaller turbo to achieve this so you dont end up with high amounts of boost on the high end but you get more boost in the low / mid RPM range than the guys with standard torque units..



I domt have the service book with me to troubleshoot boost but of course all the normal stuff.. checking the waste gate (if equipped) , turbo boots ,clamps, etc. . looking for black smoke (low boost often results in black smoke)..





I plugged a tuner into my 444E, punched it, everything flew off my dash and my boost hit 29 PSI
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post

I plugged a tuner into my 444E, punched it, everything flew off my dash and my boost hit 29 PSI
YES!! That's hilarious!

29PSI? WOW. How high can you go before damage is done?

Was that using the Orion?

John
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:44 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
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Cadillackid, would love to know what you find if you have a minute to look. It spools up like any typical turbo diesel. WOT pretty much any where once spooled results in 14-16psi
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Old 05-02-2021, 06:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbloem1974 View Post
YES!! That's hilarious!

29PSI? WOW. How high can you go before damage is done?

Was that using the Orion?

John

yes thats the orion.. I didnt have it set at the highest.. I forgot that I had left my EFRC set at 2161 instead of going to the mild power tune of 2141.



I did set an ICP code but was right before my chicago trip so I havent had a chance to see whether my HPOP petered out (needs to be bigger) or if my IPR just didnt react quick enough..



the ford guys frequently make 40 PSI of boost on tuners using the stock turbo..





back to the 466E HT, navistar built these engines to fuel HEAVY in the low end.. essentially I call it a controlled mini-lug .. the fuel curver sends lots of fuel in the low RPM range to gain torque levels.. they use a turbo which tends to spool up quicker in the lower end but doesnt have a ton of high end boost.. getting more air in the cylinders at low RPM allows you to burn more fuel.. its hell on the pistons (thus why they use heavier duty pistons in the HT versions)..



in the turbo world, smaller turbo spools up quicker but wont provide much high end boost. bigger turbo spools slower but needs more RPM to get going and will push higher boost levels at the higher RPMs.. for torque you are operating i nthe lower RPM ranges, thus getting air in the holes quicker is important..



the newer engines went to VGT or Variable geometry turbos which can spool up quick in the low RPM range and then the vanes change to push more boost in the higher RPM range.. the VT365 / 6.0 and I beleive CAT C7 were some of the first to get those.. IH put them in the DT's starting in 04.



-Christopher
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:37 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 29
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post

back to the 466E HT, navistar built these engines to fuel HEAVY in the low end.. essentially I call it a controlled mini-lug .. the fuel curver sends lots of fuel in the low RPM range to gain torque levels.. they use a turbo which tends to spool up quicker in the lower end but doesnt have a ton of high end boost.. getting more air in the cylinders at low RPM allows you to burn more fuel.. its hell on the pistons (thus why they use heavier duty pistons in the HT versions)..

in the turbo world, smaller turbo spools up quicker but wont provide much high end boost. bigger turbo spools slower but needs more RPM to get going and will push higher boost levels at the higher RPMs.. for torque you are operating i nthe lower RPM ranges, thus getting air in the holes quicker is important..
Thanks Cadillac. I'm familiar with the turbo limitations from old racing days, but transitioning to commercial diesel and fuel strategy is a bit different.

So basically what I am hearing is that I should go with a HX40 and get fuel remapped to maintain flow at higher RPM and get an EGT. Especially if the turbo wheel has shaft play.

Who out there offers a programmer for the ECM?
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Old 05-03-2021, 11:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfdime View Post

Who out there offers a programmer for the ECM?
Good luck.
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:04 AM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,742
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABBus View Post
Good luck.



im currently in a Beta program for the Orion which is Power-hungry-performance tuner for the 444E / 466E / VT365 engines..



im not sure of his actual release date but it sure seems like a promising product
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