DT530 vs Cummins 8.3. too close to call?

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Jon1371usmc

I mean it's 8.7L vs 7.3L, basically has the displacement of another honda/Nissan/Toyota engine tacked on to the front. But in all seriousness, the dt530 has plenty of power to spare even when governed at 2200rpms. Don't see why anyone would need to increase rpms higher than that unless you're doing some type of racing with the engine.

Another point to remember is that it is 8.7l with 6 cylinders, instead of 7.3 with 8 cylinders.

[Jon1371usmc]

Yeah that's right, so pistons are going to be much larger than a V8 to reach the same displacement

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Another point to remember is that it is 8.7l with 6 cylinders, instead of 7.3 with 8 cylinders.

Oh it's only a V6? pfft.

[Omnibot2000]

Just a quick Google search.

T444E used a 4.11 in × 4.18 in
The original DT466 used a 4.30-inch bore and a 5.35-inch
DT530 Bore and stroke: 4.59" x 5.35"
DT570 Bore and Stroke 4.59 x 5.75
PACCAR MX13 5.11 x 6.37
N14 engine are 5.5 in (140 mm) and 6.0 in (152 mm),

[Jon1371usmc]

Originally Posted by nikitis

Oh it's only a V6? pfft.

Not a V6, but an I6

[Kentucky Dreaming]

Xactly, Ronnie.

Lots more reciprocating mass on each rod and journal.

[Jon1371usmc]

And another quick Google search shows a 7.3L piston weighing somewhere between 1.5-2lbs, and the piston out of the Dt530 weighs on average 6.83lbs. Just from piston weight alone, the 7.3l is only slinging around at most, 16lbs, whereas the dt530 is slinging around 41lbs. Thats not even taking into account the larger wrist pins, the stronger and physically bigger connecting rods of the dt530 either. So there's quite a bit more reciprocating mass in the dt530 over the dt444.4 Could the dt530 handle a little bit more rpm and not self destruct, possibly, but once you've driven one, you'll see you're not missing much being governed at a lower rpm limit, especially if it is mated to the correct gear ratio in the rear axle. So I would take the longevity and reliability with more than adequate power, than an engine with a little more rpms and speed, and possibly a less reliable engine in the long term.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Jon1371usmc

And another quick Google search shows a 7.3L piston weighing somewhere between 1.5-2lbs, and the piston out of the Dt530 weighs on average 6.83lbs. Just from piston weight alone, the 7.3l is only slinging around at most, 16lbs, whereas the dt530 is slinging around 41lbs. Thats not even taking into account the larger wrist pins, the stronger and physically bigger connecting rods of the dt530 either. So there's quite a bit more reciprocating mass in the dt530 over the dt444.4 Could the dt530 handle a little bit more rpm and not self destruct, possibly, but once you've driven one, you'll see you're not missing much being governed at a lower rpm limit, especially if it is mated to the correct gear ratio in the rear axle. So I would take the longevity and reliability with more than adequate power, than an engine with a little more rpms and speed, and possibly a less reliable engine in the long term.

All the engines I googled are fine engines.They all have their merits and the T444e, as been written here and what I have read would be considered the 4 cyl engine of an otherwise V-6 car.

T444e can go 500k miles if taken care of. I have personally seen a friend's work truck with 870,000kms that still started in the dead of winter......plugged in of course.

As I have said, I did not realise your rig was governed so low at 2200rpm I believe. In my opinion do not change it. It's a nice engine and continue to run that speed. Only downside is your engine will cost more to repair in parts. I say keep it stock and happy unless your wallet is nice and thick. You have a million miles engine. Let's hope you live long enough to travel those million miles with a smile on your face I am not being sarcastic when I say that.

On another note, have you made that trip to pick up your bus? Curious how it ran..

[JasonHurst.studio]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

All the engines I
On another note, have you made that trip to pick up your bus? Curious how it ran..

I have not picked it up yet. I will second weekend of December. I had to arrange time off work. I’ll let you know how it does

[Jon1371usmc]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

All the engines I googled are fine engines.They all have their merits and the T444e, as been written here and what I have read would be considered the 4 cyl engine of an otherwise V-6 car.

T444e can go 500k miles if taken care of. I have personally seen a friend's work truck with 870,000kms that still started in the dead of winter......plugged in of course.

As I have said, I did not realise your rig was governed so low at 2200rpm I believe. In my opinion do not change it. It's a nice engine and continue to run that speed. Only downside is your engine will cost more to repair in parts. I say keep it stock and happy unless your wallet is nice and thick. You have a million miles engine. Let's hope you live long enough to travel those million miles with a smile on your face I am not being sarcastic when I say that.

On another note, have you made that trip to pick up your bus? Curious how it ran..

I'm not the OP. I bought my bus with the dt530 about a year ago. In regards to cost, I can do an inframe for around 1500. I doubt you can rebuild a 7.3l for that cost as it will require significantly more labor to rebuild, 1 due to the fact it is not a wet sleeve design, 2 it has to be pulled from the engine bay and there will be additional costs in machine work etc. now I'm sure I would be in it more than just the cost of the inframe kit, as I would also put on a new water pump and thermostat, as well as possibly send off the turbo to be be rebuilt and balanced, along with also sending off the injectors for a cleaning and rebuild, and new glow plugs, etc. but overall it won't be too bad all things considered.

I also have a 7.3l and would take working on the dt530 any day of the week over a 7.3l especially one in a truck frame

[JasonHurst.studio]

Originally Posted by Jon1371usmc

I'm not the OP. I bought my bus with the dt530 about a year ago. In regards to cost, I can do an inframe for around 1500. I doubt you can rebuild a 7.3l for that cost as it will require significantly more labor to rebuild, 1 due to the fact it is not a wet sleeve design, 2 it has to be pulled from the engine bay and there will be additional costs in machine work etc. now I'm sure I would be in it more than just the cost of the inframe kit, as I would also put on a new water pump and thermostat, as well as possibly send off the turbo to be be rebuilt and balanced, along with also sending off the injectors for a cleaning and rebuild, and new glow plugs, etc. but overall it won't be too bad all things considered.

I also have a 7.3l and would take working on the dt530 any day of the week over a 7.3l especially one in a truck frame

Everything you said above factored into my reasoning for choosing this engine. A full rebuild kit was priced at $1750 or so. Not bad in my book. Plus it seems really straightforward to work on

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Jon1371usmc

I'm not the OP. I bought my bus with the dt530 about a year ago. In regards to cost, I can do an inframe for around 1500. I doubt you can rebuild a 7.3l for that cost as it will require significantly more labor to rebuild, 1 due to the fact it is not a wet sleeve design, 2 it has to be pulled from the engine bay and there will be additional costs in machine work etc. now I'm sure I would be in it more than just the cost of the inframe kit, as I would also put on a new water pump and thermostat, as well as possibly send off the turbo to be be rebuilt and balanced, along with also sending off the injectors for a cleaning and rebuild, and new glow plugs, etc. but overall it won't be too bad all things considered.

I also have a 7.3l and would take working on the dt530 any day of the week over a 7.3l especially one in a truck frame

I get you two mixed up because of the J in your name lol.

My point is not engine rebuilding I'm talking about off the shelf stuff.

I have baught sensors at international because they are cheaper then Ford and fit my 7.3 just fine but could be cheaper at your typical automotive store.

Just day to day stuff.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by JasonHurst.studio

Everything you said above factored into my reasoning for choosing this engine. A full rebuild kit was priced at $1750 or so. Not bad in my book. Plus it seems really straightforward to work on

the DT engines in general are very straightforward to work on... in a conventional style bus frame you have access to getthe oil pan down without lifting the engine, the doghouse gives you easy access to the rear of the motor, turbo is on the side, valve cover can be removed without acrazy amount of work.. one of the biggest jobs though is a timing cover job.. one of the weak points in the DT466/530/570 'E' engines was cavitation in the timing cover sets.. while sometimes you get lucky and its just the O-ring that fails or the outer cover (which is pretty easy to take off).. most often the failure ends up being both, or the inner cover which *IS* a PITA to replace.. its not necessarily a "hard" job from a standpoint of needing special tools or skills, you just have to take apart alot of stuff..



the T444E in the 3800 series bus frame, you cant get the oil pan down without a good bit of effort.. if I wore mine out to where it is losing compression from the lower end, im not sure id rebuild it.. I think id probably buy a reman long block, build it up and drop it in..



by the time you pull it strip it, have it bored to fit oversize pistons, have the heads worked, crank ground if needbe, etc you are going to be getting up there in cost from your machine shop..



of course with a DT unless you actually break it (spun bearing, broken piston, etc) you can generally fix as much of it as you want... I know a guy who simply replaced his liners, pistons, bearings, had his head worked, injectors rebuilt (DT466 mechanical).. after losing significant compression in one cylinder.. piston had cracked.. put it all back together 150K miles ago and still going strong...

[Omnibot2000]

Two things that turn me away from the wet sleeves.

One, these engines while may not have many miles in terms of what these engines are capable of. They are aging out and have seen these engines stored in the fall, to pull the dipstick in the spring to find the engine oil is a gallon over filled. If you have a good owner you can rebuild it inframe. If the owner drives it and the crank sustains damage....now your doing out of frame. Just because you can do an inframe rebuild does not mean it's a guaranteed you can do it. You may find other stuff wrong with an engine that results into an out of frame rebuild

The 2nd thing, not everyone has the equipment required to perform an out of frame on these inline 6's. Just to heavy for the typical diy individual.

If a long block is required in either case, I do see T444e's going cheaper by a couple thousand then their bigger brother inline 6's in general......and they have warranty. To add, a drop in used T444's are easy to find in running condition used. Purchased my spare engine for $800 Canadian if I remember correctly.

As for working on the T444's. I don't think they are really that difficult. Work on these Maxforces and they are a breeze.