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12-07-2016, 05:42 PM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: International DTa360
Rated Cap: Not known
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DTA360 manifold
I have a cracked center section of my exhaust/turbo manifold for a 1993 International DTA360. It's about $1,000 to replace with OEM.
Does anyone have a good used one for sale or info on who might be able to fab one and if so, how much I should expect to pay. Or any other advice would be helpful. It's my understanding that welding to repair the manifold is 50/50 at best for a long term solution
Thanks,
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12-07-2016, 06:06 PM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Danglebury, Tejas
Posts: 310
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
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Welding cast iron can be tough and iffy, but you can definitely braze it. I vee it out a bit, drill the corners of the crack, and then use a TIG torch to heat the work starting in the center. Feed-in the brazing rod near to, but not actually under, the arc. Use a larger tungsten (not thoriated) electrode than what "looks right" to you. Run more shield gas than you normally would. (I use an argon/helium mix). Turn the post-flow timer to as long as it will go. Feather power back slowly at the edges/ends of the crack and aim the shield gas down the braze until postflow has stopped. Make sure the piece cools as slowly as possible.
For a manifold I'd be strongly inclined to seal up the ports loosely and backgas it just in case. Keep the flow going until the piece is below about 350F.
I knew a guy (now deceased) who swore by using a silver/nickle alloy on cast iron. He got some amazing results but I never tried it. You may want to look into that possibility too.
If none of this makes sense, take the piece to your local welder. He'll know what to do and the price should not be bad at all.
__________________
"You can finally say you have enough horsepower when you leave two black streaks from corner to corner"
(Mark Donohue, famed TransAm driver)
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12-07-2016, 06:20 PM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
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Was always told to heat to dull red with a gas torch, then weld with a cast iron rod
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12-07-2016, 07:07 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,793
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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JB Weld?
I've heard it can be used on minor cracks in a block.. Might be worth researching to save $990 of that $1000.
EDIT: Oh, sorry! I read "DTA360 manifold" and automatically assumed intake manifold. Definitely not going to work on an exhaust manifold
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12-07-2016, 08:23 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Danglebury, Tejas
Posts: 310
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
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I called a client of mine who is a welder. The guy has certs for airframe as well as nuke plants. He knows his stuff. Knees gave out years ago so now he inspects while semi-retired. He's a bit of a legend.
I asked him the question, read him my post, and he just chuckled. He said it will work just fine, but we are WAY over-thinking this.
"Get some silicon-bronze wire. Vee it a little if its small. Dont care how you heat it really, but dont pussy-foot around. Get in there, get out, and get it done". He was basically machine-agnostic.
So... there ya go. And I learned something too!
__________________
"You can finally say you have enough horsepower when you leave two black streaks from corner to corner"
(Mark Donohue, famed TransAm driver)
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12-07-2016, 10:50 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Snowflake, Arizona
Posts: 343
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American Rear Engine
Engine: C-8.3-300 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 40 Prisoners
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You might also check out Muggy Weld as well. They have some welding rods
that work with all kinds of strange metals and the work wonderfully. Saved
my bacon several times. They have how to videos on line.
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12-08-2016, 09:04 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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One of the keys to welding cast iron is to cool it VERY slowly. As in pack that sucker in sand while it is still hot and keep the heat in for 24 hours.
But personally...I'd just go to a junkyard and snag a take-off.
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12-08-2016, 09:54 AM
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#9
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: International DTa360
Rated Cap: Not known
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Thank you all for your responses and advice. I really appreciate it.
I will attempt to weld the manifold and post some pics but it will be a few weeks before I can get to it.
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12-08-2016, 03:56 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Danglebury, Tejas
Posts: 310
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
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Hey: that Muggy Weld stuff is NEAT!. They make some seriously exotic stuff.
Printed for future use.
__________________
"You can finally say you have enough horsepower when you leave two black streaks from corner to corner"
(Mark Donohue, famed TransAm driver)
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12-09-2016, 05:55 AM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,847
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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where is the crack on it? the manifold bolts on the DT360 are Notorious for working loose and destroying the manifold gasket.. people will come along and just tighten the bolts but you'll still get a high pitch whistle and swear its cracked.. obviously if you can see a crack or black soot marks in the middle of the manifold its for sure cracked.
-Christopher
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12-09-2016, 09:01 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,713
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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I've used and currently use crown royal 44-30 for iron.
http://www.crownalloys.com/TechSheet...White)_PWP.pdf
Royal 44-30 Premium Nickel-Iron-Manganese Mig Wire for cast iron. - Miller Welding Discussion Forums
It works rather well. I welded on some cylinder heads a while back with it, no pre-heat, no cooling control, and it came out nice with no cracks. I've yet to install them so we'll see how they act with a few heat cycles but I see nothing to make me believe it wont work.
As others have said. You'll have to drill a hole at the end of the crack. If it's not exactly visible then I'll go 1/4 inch beyond it. Then you v it out in some way. I usually use a 2 inch cut off wheel in a 90 degree air grinder.
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12-09-2016, 10:30 AM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,362
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
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i trick i used when repairing mine.
run the motor when you vee out or drill the crack. that way little bits of metal get blown out of the manifold as they come loose. you sure dont want little metal pieces heading for your turbo charger.
good luck
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12-09-2016, 02:02 PM
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#14
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: International DTa360
Rated Cap: Not known
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I just ordered a cast iron kit 72/77 rods from MuggyWeld.
The crack is on the top of the center section, about 2" long, barely visible but I verified it is a crack by spraying a soapy solution on it while the engine was running.
I will take some before pictures and remove the manifold this weekend and attempt the repair as soon as the rods arrive. I will post pictures after the repair.
Thanks again for all the input!
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12-09-2016, 02:07 PM
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#15
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: International DTa360
Rated Cap: Not known
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I wish I would have seen your post before I ordered the MuggyWeld rods. I think the wire would have been easier than the stick but I will try the sticks and see how they work.
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12-13-2016, 01:16 PM
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#16
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: International DTa360
Rated Cap: Not known
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dta 360 cracked exhaust manifold
Here are two pics of my cracked exhaust manifold. The cracks are small but they are big enough to leak but probably not significant. I will post pics after I weld with the MuggyWeld 72/77 kit.
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