Have any special tools for testing?

[adic27]

Anyone ever used any of these tools for diagnosing and testing?

IPR breakout harness
ICP adapter kit
ICP test sensor
Pressure sensor breakout
IPR block-off tool

Where is the best place to look for these tools? I wanna have them for troubleshooting since my bus is more than 20 years old. 98 International 3800 dt466e. Wanna have them as like a just in case. Dealing with a no start situation at the moment

Thanks

[cadillackid]

I dont, I carry a spare ICP, IPR, and a couple CPS.. with the ICP if you unplug it, the computer runs at a preset ICP setting so a bad ICP isnt going to put you along side of the road for very long.. on a 466E I think it plugs in under the valve cover? so maybe id break it out to someplace in the open where I could disconnect it if needbe.. on my 444E its easy to get to... the IPR is a %^$^&%$ to change on my 444E as its under the powered steering pump and HPOP...


of course I have the electronic onCommand manual that shows me how to test for no starts and also individual codes and i keep servicemaxx and a meter with me..

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

not yet but i need a 1/2" drive 32 point socket to work on a cummins/bosch injector pump injectors?

[Dbacks2k4]

Yes icp sensor is under the valve cover on 466e, at least on the egr models, I assume prior to 2004 was same.

I assume you already have servicemaxx and a nexiq cable? That's your best troubleshooting tool on an "E" engine.

IPR requires a special socket to get out unless you enjoy spending a couple hours with your crescent wrench. I got mine from freedom racing.

A set of fuel pressure gauges is next on my list... Navistar included service ports for testing fuel pressure but no sensor for the ecm that I've found.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

Yes icp sensor is under the valve cover on 466e, at least on the egr models, I assume prior to 2004 was same.

I assume you already have servicemaxx and a nexiq cable? That's your best troubleshooting tool on an "E" engine.

IPR requires a special socket to get out unless you enjoy spending a couple hours with your crescent wrench. I got mine from freedom racing.

A set of fuel pressure gauges is next on my list... Navistar included service ports for testing fuel pressure but no sensor for the ecm that I've found.

is IPR on a 466E different than a 444E? I didnt use a special socket.. just a good Deeep well.. I took the solenoid nut off.. slipped off the solenoid and then socketed the valve itself... it was big.. like 1 1/8" or so but thats normal stuff in my tool chests

[Dbacks2k4]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is IPR on a 466E different than a 444E? I didnt use a special socket.. just a good Deeep well.. I took the solenoid nut off.. slipped off the solenoid and then socketed the valve itself... it was big.. like 1 1/8" or so but thats normal stuff in my tool chests

It must be. The electrical connection is offset on side so requires a special socket or someone to take a cutoff wheel to a cheap socket to make work.

[adic27]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I dont, I carry a spare ICP, IPR, and a couple CPS.. with the ICP if you unplug it, the computer runs at a preset ICP setting so a bad ICP isnt going to put you along side of the road for very long.. on a 466E I think it plugs in under the valve cover? so maybe id break it out to someplace in the open where I could disconnect it if needbe.. on my 444E its easy to get to... the IPR is a %^$^&%$ to change on my 444E as its under the powered steering pump and HPOP...


of course I have the electronic onCommand manual that shows me how to test for no starts and also individual codes and i keep servicemaxx and a meter with me..

I'm trying to get on your level! I'm looking to get a nexiq usb link 2 in the next week or 2 and I already have the servicemaxx free version installed on one of my laptops. Don't know what to expect as far as troubleshooting with these tools but hope I get my bus back up and running soon.

Are those spare parts you have expensive? I see them on ebay for cheap but also see them other places for like 5 or 6 or more times as much. Hope i can find what's compatible with my bus when or if I need them.

If the ICP sensor is bad causing a no start, won't unplugging it allow for the engine to start? I mean can it be tested that way, or is that a different part?

Also, what's this electronic onCommand manual you speak of? Is that another software like servicemaxx?

[adic27]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

Yes icp sensor is under the valve cover on 466e, at least on the egr models, I assume prior to 2004 was same.

I was hoping it was behind the ecm but what I thought was it might not be. I don't think it is lol. From the looks of it I'll have a hard time removing the valve cover since there are lines wires and pipes and whatnot on top. Did NOT wanna have to mess with that stuff.

I assume you already have servicemaxx and a nexiq cable? That's your best troubleshooting tool on an "E" engine.

I have the free version of servicemaxx and plan on getting the nexiq usb link 2. I sure hope it comes with the cables needed as I don't already have them, to answer your question.

IPR requires a special socket to get out unless you enjoy spending a couple hours with your crescent wrench. I got mine from freedom racing.

Yea I knew this but I think I would have had to take it out piece by piece (which I did) because trying to spin it out as a whole the connector part was knocking against something preventing it from turning. Might still get one just in case. I inspected it and from what I could tell it looked OK. O-ring was in good shape.

A set of fuel pressure gauges is next on my list... Navistar included service ports for testing fuel pressure but no sensor for the ecm that I've found.

Yea I need that too. What year is your bus?

Thanks!

[adic27]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is IPR on a 466E different than a 444E? I didnt use a special socket.. just a good Deeep well.. I took the solenoid nut off.. slipped off the solenoid and then socketed the valve itself... it was big.. like 1 1/8" or so but thats normal stuff in my tool chests

This is how I did it. I don't think I had any other choice as the connector would hit against a line when spinning

[Dbacks2k4]

Originally Posted by adic27

I was hoping it was behind the ecm but what I thought was it might not be. I don't think it is lol. From the looks of it I'll have a hard time removing the valve cover since there are lines wires and pipes and whatnot on top. Did NOT wanna have to mess with that stuff.



I have the free version of servicemaxx and plan on getting the nexiq usb link 2. I sure hope it comes with the cables needed as I don't already have them, to answer your question.



Yea I knew this but I think I would have had to take it out piece by piece (which I did) because trying to spin it out as a whole the connector part was knocking against something preventing it from turning. Might still get one just in case. I inspected it and from what I could tell it looked OK. O-ring was in good shape.



Yea I need that too. What year is your bus?

Thanks!

Mines a 2006 title year, 2005 engine year. Getting the valve cover off is pretty easy, snip the zip ties and there's plenty of slack to move the wires and the bleeder hoses for the coolant out of the way. On the conventionals, the valve cover comes up and slides into the bus through the dog house. Not terribly difficult but requires 2 people. Be careful you don't snag any wires from the uvc (under valve cover) harness - they feed your injectors.

The nexiq will come with a couple different adapters including the 9 pin you'll need for your bus.

[adic27]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

Mines a 2006 title year, 2005 engine year. Getting the valve cover off is pretty easy, snip the zip ties and there's plenty of slack to move the wires and the bleeder hoses for the coolant out of the way. On the conventionals, the valve cover comes up and slides into the bus through the dog house. Not terribly difficult but requires 2 people. Be careful you don't snag any wires from the uvc (under valve cover) harness - they feed your injectors.

The nexiq will come with a couple different adapters including the 9 pin you'll need for your bus.

Thanks for the tips! Can't wait to get this thing back running. Just curious, there's no way to troubleshoot with just a laptop hooked up to the bus with some kind of special wire/adapter? A tool like tge nexiq is required?

[Dbacks2k4]

The nexiq is your interface between the laptop and the ecm via the 9 pin port on the bus. No simple USB connectivity or anything like that

[adic27]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

The nexiq is your interface between the laptop and the ecm via the 9 pin port on the bus. No simple USB connectivity or anything like that

Excuse the late response, I figured it would be a special kind of USB. Do you happen to have a nexiq usb link 2? If so, what software do you use with it?

[Booyah45828]

The nexiq usb link 2 is the interface between your laptop and the vehicle. Nexiq has all sorts of drivers and software to make the interface work that you'll install on your laptop. Most of those are available online, however they do include a cd of them in the case when you buy it. The stuff online is the most updated/recent version of it, though, and you'll likely want to use them if at all possible.

You can use a variety of programs to then use this interface to communicate, diagnose, and even (re)program the module you're working on. The program you use depends on what module specifically you're trying to work with, and what you're trying to do with that module. Every component manufacturer has their own software program(s) to work with, and there are also generic programs that you can use as well.

Nexiq themselves have etechincian, which you can download and get a 14 day free trial of, if you so choose. It does a lot of your basic diagnostic functions and bi-directional controls, but it covers a wide range of manufacturers, which is nice if you work on a variety of different vehicles.

Your manufacturer specific software, like servicemaxx, will only cover that specific manufacturer's(International's) products. But, since it's dealer level software, it's top notch and has all of the needed capabilities, unlike the generic programs.

Clones.

Like everything else on the planet, the Chinese have hacked/cloned these interface devices as well. They're typically sold much cheaper then genuine units which is where their appeal comes from. If you purchase one of these devices, be sure to follow and defer to the clone manufacturer's advice with any issues. I know some people that use the clones and have tried updating the devices only to ruin them and render them useless in the process.

[Booyah45828]

There are also several alternative interface modules to the Nexiq usb link 2. Some of them are older models, which can be had for cheap off of ebay, which would be perfectly fine when used with an older school bus like most on here are doing.

[Dbacks2k4]

Originally Posted by adic27

Excuse the late response, I figured it would be a special kind of USB. Do you happen to have a nexiq usb link 2? If so, what software do you use with it?

I have both a legit Nexiq USBlink 2 that I got off Amazon several years ago, as well as a Chinese knockoff which is the USBlink 1 (original) that I got this last winter. I bought the knockoff from Chinacardiags dot com.

Both work fine, just require different drivers. Don't try to update firmware on the knockoffs.

Both work with servicemaxx j1708 for reading engine diagnostic data, and some light programming which we pretty much only use for disabling the governors. That's a legit free download from snap-on who handles Navistar's software now so has nothing to do with the Chinese knockoff. We use this program the most.
https://navistarservice.snapon.com/S...Number=SM-1708

I bought the knockoff in order to get the DVD set that came with it that included a hacked copy of Allison doc for reading transmission codes and diagnostic data. We use it occasionally, but not very often. Allisons generally don't have a lot of issues if you use transynd fluid in them and keep them topped off. There are other sites online that have cracked software copies but this was the easiest way for me... and having the second adapter was a nice benefit since we have two shops now for our party bus fleet and the nexiq was usually at the other shop when I needed it

The Chinese dvd has a whole lot of other programs on it as well that I don't use or need. There's diamond logic for international, Cummins insight, and some other stuff. I can share those on a Dropbox if anybody wants them. I was pleasantly surprised none of the DVDs had any viruses or malware on them (I do IT for my day job). The Allison software did require some registry mods to get to work... The script it came with was written for 32 bit windows xp and I had to tweak it for 64 bit windows 10...

The other thing I use a lot is repairlinkshop dot com for looking up parts numbers and diagrams.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/n...ase-38729.html

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

I have both a legit Nexiq USBlink 2 that I got off Amazon several years ago, as well as a Chinese knockoff which is the USBlink 1 (original) that I got this last winter. I bought the knockoff from Chinacardiags dot com.

Both work fine, just require different drivers. Don't try to update firmware on the knockoffs.

Both work with servicemaxx j1708 for reading engine diagnostic data, and some light programming which we pretty much only use for disabling the governors. That's a legit free download from snap-on who handles Navistar's software now so has nothing to do with the Chinese knockoff. We use this program the most.
https://navistarservice.snapon.com/S...Number=SM-1708

I bought the knockoff in order to get the DVD set that came with it that included a hacked copy of Allison doc for reading transmission codes and diagnostic data. We use it occasionally, but not very often. Allisons generally don't have a lot of issues if you use transynd fluid in them and keep them topped off. There are other sites online that have cracked software copies but this was the easiest way for me... and having the second adapter was a nice benefit since we have two shops now for our party bus fleet and the nexiq was usually at the other shop when I needed it

The Chinese dvd has a whole lot of other programs on it as well that I don't use or need. There's diamond logic for international, Cummins insight, and some other stuff. I can share those on a Dropbox if anybody wants them. I was pleasantly surprised none of the DVDs had any viruses or malware on them (I do IT for my day job). The Allison software did require some registry mods to get to work... The script it came with was written for 32 bit windows xp and I had to tweak it for 64 bit windows 10...

The other thing I use a lot is repairlinkshop dot com for looking up parts numbers and diagrams.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/n...ase-38729.html

everything on those china DVDs you can download newer and better versions of on certain Auto sites on the internet.. allison PCCS is about the only program that has not been cracked to a point of being able to edit shift tables and write custom CIN's...



theres at least one Vietnam site where you can get delete files for navistar LaxxForce ECMs... a fully deleted Laxxforce DT is actually a pretty venerable engine....

[Dbacks2k4]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

everything on those china DVDs you can download newer and better versions of on certain Auto sites on the internet.. allison PCCS is about the only program that has not been cracked to a point of being able to edit shift tables and write custom CIN's...

theres at least one Vietnam site where you can get delete files for navistar LaxxForce ECMs... a fully deleted Laxxforce DT is actually a pretty venerable engine....

Mhhauto has been recommended several times but I was pretty disappointed in it. Even after I made my "donation" to get access to the site, every post was either a virus or a "pm me for download link" to which the response was always "I don't give download links to new members." Maybe in a couple years once my account has "aged" it'll be a valuable resource? Unfortunately I have little value to contribute to that site to get reputation points...

I figured a second nexiq adapter would come in handy so went the Chinese route. Allison doc 8.4 is good enough for what I need, at least for now... We really just need the ability to read diagnostic data to troubleshoot issues to decide whether to replace a part, take it to a shop, or scrap the bus altogether. We're dealing mostly with $5k party buses...

I'm a datacenter infrastructure guy by trade. I can design and implement some pretty wild international network configs or migrate huge and complex datacenters without downtime, but writing my own code to do some of the things I've seen in your bus projects is waaaay beyond my level. Wish I was that savvy </jealousy>

[cadillackid]

you are right about mhh you need to get some creds / time on the site then people take you more seriously.. but theres still plenty of stuff to get even as a new member..

[adic27]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

The nexiq usb link 2 is the interface between your laptop and the vehicle. Nexiq has all sorts of drivers and software to make the interface work that you'll install on your laptop. Most of those are available online, however they do include a cd of them in the case when you buy it. The stuff online is the most updated/recent version of it, though, and you'll likely want to use them if at all possible.

You can use a variety of programs to then use this interface to communicate, diagnose, and even (re)program the module you're working on. The program you use depends on what module specifically you're trying to work with, and what you're trying to do with that module. Every component manufacturer has their own software program(s) to work with, and there are also generic programs that you can use as well.

Nexiq themselves have etechincian, which you can download and get a 14 day free trial of, if you so choose. It does a lot of your basic diagnostic functions and bi-directional controls, but it covers a wide range of manufacturers, which is nice if you work on a variety of different vehicles.

Your manufacturer specific software, like servicemaxx, will only cover that specific manufacturer's(International's) products. But, since it's dealer level software, it's top notch and has all of the needed capabilities, unlike the generic programs.

Clones.

Like everything else on the planet, the Chinese have hacked/cloned these interface devices as well. They're typically sold much cheaper then genuine units which is where their appeal comes from. If you purchase one of these devices, be sure to follow and defer to the clone manufacturer's advice with any issues. I know some people that use the clones and have tried updating the devices only to ruin them and render them useless in the process.

Thanks for this info!

I had already downloaded and installed the drivers for my version of the USB Link 2 (Bluetooth) and connected to my bus with no issue. I just gotta figure out how to diagnose and troubleshoot now since I have no clue and have never done this type of thing. Im using the Servicemaxx j1708 software that I got free from Diesel Laptops, which is also who I purchased the Nexiq from. I just downloaded the user manual for the Servicemaxx j1708 software so I can see if I understand any of it.

In the meantime, maybe you or someone here can shed some light on this. I was kinda anxious so I connected to my bus and ran a "KOEO(Key on engineoff)" test in Servicemaxx. Two codes popped up;

263 - oil/water lamp OCC self test failed
525 - Injector driver circuit fault *M*

Does this tell you anything at all or have you had these code issues? I couldn't run a "KOER (Key on engine running)" test since I haven't been able to get it started for months. The KOEO test set the "WARN ENGINE" light off, if that's relevant

Also, here is a screen capture of me switching to the different tabs near the top.

https://streamable.com/0wlcdo

Can you see anything that stands out giving you a hint of any issues? One think I noticed is the the injector control pressure is at 0 psi and the engine oil pressure was at 1 psi. Am I right to assume it's because the engine isn't running?

I know you said Servicemaxx is best for International's but if you have any experience with E-Technician how would you compare the two? I'm going to DL and install it to see how the interface looks compared to Servicemaxx

Thanks!

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to add the link to the screencapture. It's up above now

Edit 2: Please tell me if the video is viewable to you. It appears blurry on my phone but maybe that's just my phone