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Old 08-26-2022, 07:55 AM   #21
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Video is blurry. But I don't really need to watch it. If you have a code 525 that is where you need to look.

525 is an IDM(injector driver module) issue. Check for power and grounds to and from the ecm, including the fuses and relay. Often times that code is caused by corrosion, as the IDM requires a large amount of power and corrosion will prevent it from getting that. So check every power and ground between engine and battery for any issues.

If all looks and tests well, then you can replace the ecm. Sometimes, after you've extensively checked powers and grounds, the IDM will have failed for no reason. But in my experience it's usually caused by being ran with bad connections for a while, burning it up over time. I think in 98 the IDM and ECM were together, so you'd have to replace the ECM. If you have the earlier 3 box system, then you can buy replace the IDM separate.

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Old 08-26-2022, 07:57 AM   #22
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Etechnician is simple and easier for a beginner to navigate and get the basic stuff IMO.

You seem to be able to navigate servicemaxx well enough, so I wouldn't deal with it.

Etechnician is to shops what a code reader is to autozone. It's good to get you an idea, but doesn't do much in the way of diagnostics.
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Old 08-26-2022, 09:07 AM   #23
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Thanks. I'll do some research on how to do this. What about the code 263, oil/water lamp OCC self test failed? Unrelated? That code actually didn't show before a while back when I flashed the codes. I wonder if it's due to me removing the IPR valve for inspection and not noticing the continuous leak of oil. When I first removed it a little oil was barely dripping out at a slow pace and I walked off to inspect the IPR valve inside the bus and when I came back out like 10 minutes or even longer later I discovered a huge pile of oil on the ground Think that's what it could be? The oil level looks good so maybe it came from the reservoir. Probably will have to fill up after and if I can even get ot back running
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Old 08-26-2022, 09:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Etechnician is simple and easier for a beginner to navigate and get the basic stuff IMO.

You seem to be able to navigate servicemaxx well enough, so I wouldn't deal with it.

Etechnician is to shops what a code reader is to autozone. It's good to get you an idea, but doesn't do much in the way of diagnostics.
Gotta ask, does the USB Link 2 along with the servicemaxx software help with troubleshooting power and grounds issues at all? Or is that code all I will get out of it? The software looks pretty basic and dated. Does it provide step by step instructions on troubleshooting and repairs or anything like that or do I have the wrong idea?
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Old 08-26-2022, 09:50 AM   #25
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263 is irrelevant to your no-start. There is a red warning light on the dash, for high coolant temp/low oil pressure that the ecm will light if you have either of those issues. At initial key on, the ecm will do a self test to make sure the circuit works. That code is saying the self test of that light circuit has failed. Could be as simple as a bulb that burned out, or it could be the trash navistar dashboard.

Nothing to do with your ipr. But with you saying that, after you fix code 525, the oil leaking out will likely give you a long crank time before startup until the air is purged from the rail and injectors.
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:00 AM   #26
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Gotta ask, does the USB Link 2 along with the servicemaxx software help with troubleshooting power and grounds issues at all? Or is that code all I will get out of it? The software looks pretty basic and dated. Does it provide step by step instructions on troubleshooting and repairs or anything like that or do I have the wrong idea?
No it doesn't. The code is all you're going to get, and it will give you the troubleshooting steps if you click on the code, which will give you pinouts of the conenctor that you'll need. But those steps are pretty vague, and you're still gonna have to get your hands dirty and do it the old fashioned way.
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
263 is irrelevant to your no-start. There is a red warning light on the dash, for high coolant temp/low oil pressure that the ecm will light if you have either of those issues. At initial key on, the ecm will do a self test to make sure the circuit works. That code is saying the self test of that light circuit has failed. Could be as simple as a bulb that burned out, or it could be the trash navistar dashboard.

Nothing to do with your ipr. But with you saying that, after you fix code 525, the oil leaking out will likely give you a long crank time before startup until the air is purged from the rail and injectors.
Thanks for the heads up!
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Old 08-26-2022, 11:33 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by adic27 View Post
Gotta ask, does the USB Link 2 along with the servicemaxx software help with troubleshooting power and grounds issues at all? Or is that code all I will get out of it? The software looks pretty basic and dated. Does it provide step by step instructions on troubleshooting and repairs or anything like that or do I have the wrong idea?
Nope it's not that advanced. The codes just give you an indication where to start looking. Could always be a bad sensor, bad wiring to a sensor or part, a fluid leak, or just a failed or failing part. The service and diagnostic manuals by Navistar will give you better troubleshooting steps in detail about testing electronics, bypassing things, etc.

The value in servicemaxx is the various tests it can run, such as injector isolation; and the ability to see real time graphs of values such as IPR requested and IPR delivered. That is useful for chasing down gremlins and intermittent issues. No-starts are a little harder to chase, but can be helpful when you get to the point that the engine cranks but won't turn over. It takes some getting used to.

Ecm issues are harder to troubleshoot with software because the software connects to the module that isn't working right. A popular joke in my profession (enterprise IT) is "you didn't get the email saying the email server is down?"

The diag manual will tell you what the expected voltage is on each wire. I would first check all the connections for anything loose or broken, check harness connectors for spread pins, tighten down my battery lugs, check fuses, check battery voltage directly on the battery with a multimeter, then finally check individual wires. It's tedious but without the code you could still be chasing fuel issues
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:25 PM   #29
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Nope it's not that advanced. The codes just give you an indication where to start looking. Could always be a bad sensor, bad wiring to a sensor or part, a fluid leak, or just a failed or failing part. The service and diagnostic manuals by Navistar will give you better troubleshooting steps in detail about testing electronics, bypassing things, etc.

The value in servicemaxx is the various tests it can run, such as injector isolation; and the ability to see real time graphs of values such as IPR requested and IPR delivered. That is useful for chasing down gremlins and intermittent issues. No-starts are a little harder to chase, but can be helpful when you get to the point that the engine cranks but won't turn over. It takes some getting used to.

Ecm issues are harder to troubleshoot with software because the software connects to the module that isn't working right. A popular joke in my profession (enterprise IT) is "you didn't get the email saying the email server is down?"

The diag manual will tell you what the expected voltage is on each wire. I would first check all the connections for anything loose or broken, check harness connectors for spread pins, tighten down my battery lugs, check fuses, check battery voltage directly on the battery with a multimeter, then finally check individual wires. It's tedious but without the code you could still be chasing fuel issues
That email server joke

You are right about the fuel issues. Put a lot of time into thinking it was that. May it was and it caused the current code? Who knows. I cleared the other handful of codes that were there before. Was I wrong? Maybe they were from when I had issues before that I solved or even before I purchased the bus

I have what seems to be a pretty good pdf I came across. It's titled "DIAGNOSTIC/TROUBLESHOOTING MANUAL International® DT 466, DT 570, and HT 570 DIESEL ENGINE EGES-270-1". I also have a video I've looked at that shows you how to run certain tests. It's from some kind of course some guy uploaded on YouTube. I think both of these would come and handy. Only thing is the video showing how to run the tests have special test part/equipment, such as the ones I mentioned above in my initial post. Have you ever used any of those things or think they are really necessary? Here is the video of the course.

https://youtu.be/OQr5797brqA

Has some good info including explanations of the components of the high pressure oil system and how they work as well as the special tools used for certain tests. The start of the explanation of the system starts at about the 12:15 mark the list of tools I'm curious about show at about the 20:15 mark. The narrator. Pretty much said what you guys have already said here. Just goes into detail. Maybe this will help someone in the future. Am I on the right track following this video?

I honestly thought the service tool and software was gonna do another more but now that I look through the posts mentioning them I see it's common that people mainly wanna make transmission and governor adjustments etc. aside from reading trouble codes. I'm sure they will still come in handy and glad I got them. Guess I just gotta get to know them.

Question: before I get Into checking the wiring, what tools would you recommend besides a multimeter? I have a test light but that's about it. Not gonna lie, I feel like I'm going at this blind folded since I've never takenthisapproach. I can change my own oil on my car and rotate my own tires but these feels way out of my league. Do you experienced guys seriously just follow wires with a multimeter until you find a bad one etc.? Any tips that will make this easier will be greatly appreciated and thanks for the responses so far!
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:37 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by adic27 View Post
Do you experienced guys seriously just follow wires with a multimeter until you find a bad one etc.? Any tips that will make this easier will be greatly appreciated and thanks for the responses so far!
Usually if we (my mechanic or I) suspect a wiring issue there are usually signs... Frayed or pinched wires, burnt wires, spread pins in a connector, etc. Then we check out that particular bundle of cables with a multimeter or ohm meter depending on the wire or replace the pigtail as part of our troubleshooting (IPR issues always just get a new pigtail, we've been burned by that enough times). If all the wires and connectors look good, fuses are good, and all battery and ground terminals snug we often skip past electrical to parts replacement unless it's a really expensive part like a turbo or hpop. If the new part has same issues, then we dig deeper into the multimeter and ohm meter and the part goes on the shelf for a spare...

9 out of 10 of our issues are just a failed part. It's the 10% that is electrical that drives us crazy
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Old 08-27-2022, 08:25 AM   #31
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troubleshooting is a learned skill... esp for those that have never done it as part of any of their work etc.. observing the surroundings, conditions, nuances, etc.. troubleshooting has been in my nature for my whole life... learning to write code in the 80s and build my own PC's.. then into HVAC in the 90s and buying early to mid-80s cadillacs CHEAP to fix, drive a year and sell on the side..



the ECM generates a trouble code simply when it sees a value outside the limits programmed into the computer.. those limits can by dynamic in and of themselves...



for instance a Key on Egine Off (KOEO) test can generate an IDM code because the battery voltage drops due to the glowplug still being active when you triggered the test.. or your A/C blower was on, etc.. (alas why when you read the shop manuals they often suggest that a battery voltage maintainer is attached during tests so the ECM has a constant voltage to work with)...


However such a code can be informative in and of itself.. an IDM code set with a battery voltage of 11.8 or 12.0 might tell you that the engine is likely never going to start at the actual 10.X volts you'll have while cranking. but yet jump it and it starts.. most anyone at that point would go buy batteries.. which might solve the issue for a short time while those batteries are new.. or might solve it forever.. but running the test under hgher voltage is a first thing I do if i see an IDM code..



computers also monitor circuits.. and they do so by having a reference ground.. sometimes the device itself has a ground all the way back to the ECM.. and then the ECM has its own ground back to the battery... on some devices the device receives its ground from the surroundings.. the engine, the frame, etc...



since the computer receives its Reference ground from the battery itself yet a sensor may be grounded via the engine.. theres a potential for discrepency.. when I see extraneous codes... first thing i do is start checking for ground potential.. with the systems powered up.. if the engine runs idealy are check with it running.. i want the alternator pushing power, the engine vibrating in its mounts, etc.. checking for AC and DC voltage from my battery minus to various ground points (and getting good connections at each) can be telltale.. if I have voltage and it jumps around.. I have a ground problem between that point and my main ground, the battery.. loose or corroded strap? rusted hole on the frame where the strap connects? or rusted hols on the frame where the ground from the battery connects.. or the ECM reference ground connection is bad or wire damaged, etc.. this in and f itself will generate all kinds of codes..


remember codes get set when the computer sees sensor and circuit values go out of the range it expects to see them...



circuits are often tested by the computer before applying a signal to them.. relays, injectors, solenoids.. typically the high voltage is applied at all times and then a ground is applied by the computer completing the circuit to activate the device..


the computer can look to see if that high voltage is present on the wire it is about to ground .. if it sees no voltage there it knows the device isnt going to work.. so youll get a code "such and such circuit low fault".. the fuse could be blown, the device could be bad or a wire broken...



a light bulb is the same way "oil / water lamp circuit" code comes on because it sees zero volts at the pin it would ground to turn on the bulb...


it can also test for a shorted device.. say you took out a relay and replaced the coil pins with a wire.. would you blow up the ECM? would you blow the fuse? depends but most modern ECMs are capable of apply a slight bit of bias to that floated wire it wants to ground before actually going full-bore, if it sees no voltage drop (like if a device were there) it cries foul and you'll get the error "such and such circuit High / shorted"...


the navistar guide for the T444E service manual (and prob one for the 466E) are great manuals.. they give you per-code troubleshooting procedures to help narrow down issues.. you'll need patience and a really nice Digital meter with some nice long clip on alligator leads and also sharp point attachments for probing connectors... a good quality pure DC battery charger is nice too so you can maintain constant voltage with the key on for extended periods of time...



while electronic parts can and do go bad... throwing parts at an ECM throwing lots of codes rarely fixes the issue... corroded pins, chaffed harnesses, stressed connectors (pins partially pulled out or damaged).. bad grounds, alternators letting AC voltage into the output due to bad rectifiers are some of the most common things ive fixed..



ive gone as far as taking alternator belts off and running the engine on a battery charger and watching every active code vanish because the alternator was introducing erratic AC voltage harmonics from its output..
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Old 08-27-2022, 04:35 PM   #32
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@cadillackid

Thanks for taking the time to share this info! Really appreciate..

I have a battery charger but think I may need to get more of a maintainer. The one I have is able to set the charge time from 1 to 48 hours. Even after the charge time is reached it seems to keep charging but throughout charging, from 1 up to 48 and beyond the amps gradually drop from around 5 to below one amp so it seems it IS a maintainer as well. Are tools like this and similar safe to leave hooked up while cranking an engine?

I also have thus multimeter

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6qgUnO4y5mKd3g

Is this good enough or should I upgrade to something more efficient for what I'm getting into?
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