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07-11-2022, 04:41 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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HPOP Oil Lines
I'm resealing the HPOP on my T444e. When I took the hoses off it was immediately obvious they need replaced. Any opinions about staying with the quick release or going to threaded oil lines? The connectors on the HPOP body will be replaced either way.
Any recommendations for sourcing other than Amazon or eBay?
Thanks.
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07-11-2022, 04:59 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldyeller
I'm resealing the HPOP on my T444e. When I took the hoses off it was immediately obvious they need replaced. Any opinions about staying with the quick release or going to threaded oil lines? The connectors on the HPOP body will be replaced either way.
Any recommendations for sourcing other than Amazon or eBay?
Thanks.
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I replaced mine with threaded and got them from dieselsite where I got my Adrenaline HPOP
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07-11-2022, 04:59 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: NE TN
Posts: 29
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800 International
Engine: 7.3
Rated Cap: 5 Window
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Any of the diesel sites have those hoses. I'm clueless on quality but you should check out some of them. Tons of 7.3 aftermarket stuff out there. Was your HPOP leaking or was this a maintenance thing? With the miles on these buses was replacing the HPOP with a new one an option? I know they aren't cheap but they get weak over time.
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07-11-2022, 06:36 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaznaut
Any of the diesel sites have those hoses. I'm clueless on quality but you should check out some of them. Tons of 7.3 aftermarket stuff out there. Was your HPOP leaking or was this a maintenance thing? With the miles on these buses was replacing the HPOP with a new one an option? I know they aren't cheap but they get weak over time.
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I noted both Amazon and eBay were offering Eaton lines which should be good quality . . . assuming they aren't counterfeit.
My HPOP was leaking, I think around the line connections, at the IPR and at the gasket to the reservoir. Hope to get to it tomorrow for a cleanup and disassembly.
I think it was Cadillackid that mentioned he replaced his because it was getting weak but I don't know how to make that determination. Also this might be the only time I take this bus out, assuming I make it, I don't want to spend anymore than I absolutely have to but I'll replace what needs replacing to be safe.
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07-11-2022, 07:46 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I replaced my whole HPOP because it was weak.. I determined that by the fact it couldnt keep up when I had my engine under full load and running a mild tune even with stock injectiors.. it set 333 codes.. so I ran some tests on it in Servicemaxx Pro and everything indicated the HPOP was working but definitely not as good as it once did... the IPR duty cycle was always much higher than what it should be for the requested pressure..
at the same time I went ahead and replaced the lines.. often if you disturb the factory lines they will never seal again.. and there was evidence mine were leaking a bit so I went ahead and changed everything at once.. knowing i planned to continue tuning and also i was (did) go to bigger injectors..
on a stock engine thats a 210 HP or less variant then likely your HPOP could get fairly weak and the engine still run just fine as the pump isnt asked to run high volume and high pressure at the same time.. if you arent setting codes under full load I probably wouldnt worry about swapping the whole HPOP out..
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07-11-2022, 08:20 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
I replaced my whole HPOP because it was weak.. I determined that by the fact it couldnt keep up when I had my engine under full load and running a mild tune even with stock injectiors.. it set 333 codes.. so I ran some tests on it in Servicemaxx Pro and everything indicated the HPOP was working but definitely not as good as it once did... the IPR duty cycle was always much higher than what it should be for the requested pressure..
at the same time I went ahead and replaced the lines.. often if you disturb the factory lines they will never seal again.. and there was evidence mine were leaking a bit so I went ahead and changed everything at once.. knowing i planned to continue tuning and also i was (did) go to bigger injectors..
on a stock engine thats a 210 HP or less variant then likely your HPOP could get fairly weak and the engine still run just fine as the pump isnt asked to run high volume and high pressure at the same time.. if you arent setting codes under full load I probably wouldnt worry about swapping the whole HPOP out..
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Ah, that makes sense, pulling real time data. I haven't seen much about what's accessible with which software but I recently watched a video in which a guy was checking fuel pressure and IPR load. Does the Bluefire app give you that kind of information? I've been thinking about buying a Bluefire dongle.
Thanks.
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07-11-2022, 08:35 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldyeller
Ah, that makes sense, pulling real time data. I haven't seen much about what's accessible with which software but I recently watched a video in which a guy was checking fuel pressure and IPR load. Does the Bluefire app give you that kind of information? I've been thinking about buying a Bluefire dongle.
Thanks.
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fuel pressure on the 444E is mechanical and theres no sensor into the computer.. I checked mine with a gauge in the schraeder under the hood.. mine had the low pressure spring... there was a spring upgrade to go from 47 to 65-70 PSI around the year 2000.. it was designed to help with the low speed idle injector knock.. but I noticed it gave my engine a little better spunkiness off the line when I did it... our fuel pups are mechanical and in the valley... just like the 94-96 fords you can E-fuel them and go electric.. i didnt bother.. i havent gotten any evidence I run out of fuel..
Bluefire.. it displays the published and common parameters.. except (well i havent tried in a couple years).. it didnt display PID 164 which is HPOP...
navistar has its own set of parameters it added to the protocol expressly for use with servicemaxx.. I decompiled the code to Servicemaxx (its just a Java JVM so was easy to do) and learned a bunch about how that works.. servicemaxx sends a start sequence that starts those paraneters flowing.. and its a wierd one.. anyway i was able to sort of figure out ICP desired, ICP actual, and IPR duty cycle.. I havet yet written myself any software to display them constantly on my digital dash tablets yet.. it could be done by modifying the source-code for Bluefire (they give you android and windows sources).. I got it to read HPOP that way.. but I havent tried to emulate the start sequence yet to get all the other goodies..
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07-12-2022, 12:07 PM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
fuel pressure on the 444E is mechanical and theres no sensor into the computer.. I checked mine with a gauge in the schraeder under the hood.. mine had the low pressure spring... there was a spring upgrade to go from 47 to 65-70 PSI around the year 2000.. it was designed to help with the low speed idle injector knock.. but I noticed it gave my engine a little better spunkiness off the line when I did it... our fuel pups are mechanical and in the valley... just like the 94-96 fords you can E-fuel them and go electric.. i didnt bother.. i havent gotten any evidence I run out of fuel..
Bluefire.. it displays the published and common parameters.. except (well i havent tried in a couple years).. it didnt display PID 164 which is HPOP...
navistar has its own set of parameters it added to the protocol expressly for use with servicemaxx.. I decompiled the code to Servicemaxx (its just a Java JVM so was easy to do) and learned a bunch about how that works.. servicemaxx sends a start sequence that starts those paraneters flowing.. and its a wierd one.. anyway i was able to sort of figure out ICP desired, ICP actual, and IPR duty cycle.. I havet yet written myself any software to display them constantly on my digital dash tablets yet.. it could be done by modifying the source-code for Bluefire (they give you android and windows sources).. I got it to read HPOP that way.. but I havent tried to emulate the start sequence yet to get all the other goodies..
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Yes, it was NOT fuel pressure, my bad, I think it was the oil pressure, he was comparing it to the IPR reading.
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07-20-2022, 10:31 AM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldyeller
I'm resealing the HPOP on my T444e. When I took the hoses off it was immediately obvious they need replaced. Any opinions about staying with the quick release or going to threaded oil lines? The connectors on the HPOP body will be replaced either way.
Any recommendations for sourcing other than Amazon or eBay?
Thanks.
|
Is this the site you bought your replacement lines from? Are these the lines that fit?
https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/...nes-99-03-ford
I tried a kit I got off Amazon but it was wrong. Nice hoses but definitely wouldn't fit.
Thanks.
I tried to PM you and got the error message that your inbox is full. You might want to clear it so we can fill it again - so you can empty it again.
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07-20-2022, 10:52 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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these are the ones i used
https://www.dieselsite.com/HighPressureOilLines.aspx
I think throughbred has this set in stock still.. so far no issues with them.. no more oil in my valley!!
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07-20-2022, 11:33 AM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
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Interesting, I ended up at an entirely different website when I searched for dieselsite. I note, when I go to the link you provided it says "temporarily out of stock".
My lines are shown below. Do these look like what you had?
Thanks.
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07-20-2022, 11:38 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Dieselsite manufactures them and sells direct , others sell them. Thoroughbred diesel is a reseller and hood site ..
Your old ones look like mine. More oil on the outside than in the pipe lol
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07-20-2022, 12:34 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
Dieselsite manufactures them and sells direct , others sell them. Thoroughbred diesel is a reseller and hood site ..
Your old ones look like mine. More oil on the outside than in the pipe lol
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I didn't ask if you have air or hydraulic brakes. As you can see in the picture attached I have the PS/PB pump sitting over the HPOP so the routing to the passenger side head is limited to under the fuel bowl. The 45 degree connector on one set of hoses might be a good fit but you never know till you get the parts in your hand. I'm concerned about the length of the replacement hoses.
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07-20-2022, 01:01 PM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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yeah unfortunately i have that hydroboost pump on top of the HPOP. i had to take it out when I changed my HPOP... royal PITA
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07-20-2022, 01:09 PM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
yeah unfortunately i have that hydroboost pump on top of the HPOP. i had to take it out when I changed my HPOP... royal PITA
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Yea, I was pleasantly surprised that it went easier than I expected. That sometimes happens when you're a pessimist, expecting the worst. When you don't get the worst it's so uplifting.
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07-20-2022, 04:46 PM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldyeller
Yea, I was pleasantly surprised that it went easier than I expected. That sometimes happens when you're a pessimist, expecting the worst. When you don't get the worst it's so uplifting.
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I dont see the ford guys mentioning this.. did the ford versions have the PS in a different spot?
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07-20-2022, 04:50 PM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
I dont see the ford guys mentioning this.. did the ford versions have the PS in a different spot?
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I think yes. From some images I saw the Ford PUs likely use a conventional PS/PB setups.
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07-20-2022, 05:03 PM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
yeah unfortunately i have that hydroboost pump on top of the HPOP. i had to take it out when I changed my HPOP... royal PITA
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Can you take a picture of how your new lines are routed?
Thanks.
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07-20-2022, 09:10 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,753
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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ill have to get that... I was just over and put my DEV bus away.. supposed to be nice weather tomorrow, ill likely have some bus out for driving.. ill snap a pic best i can.. my A/C is kind of over the top of the front part of the engine
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07-20-2022, 10:11 PM
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#20
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Communist State of New Jersey
Posts: 964
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: T444e
Rated Cap: 27,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
ill have to get that... I was just over and put my DEV bus away.. supposed to be nice weather tomorrow, ill likely have some bus out for driving.. ill snap a pic best i can.. my A/C is kind of over the top of the front part of the engine
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Thanks. I didn't think it was going to be such a PITA to find hoses.
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