Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-21-2021, 09:56 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
I'll cry ...

I spent a lot of time and money into my engine swap. Chose a new engine to be sure it would outlast the bus. Finally sorted out all the electronic gremlins, and it now works amazingly.
And today. Almost one quart of oil in the coolant tank. It is grey-ish, and under it the coolant looks clean. Engine oil and transmission oil are clean. I removed the drain plugs of the engine and transmission, and clean oil here too.
I think it is engine oil. Where from? No clue. We were ready to go, after 6 months working full time on this bus. Exhausted and devastated.

ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 10:41 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
TJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 878
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
That is reason to shed more than a couple tears. Sorry to hear of your problems. Good news that there is no coolant in the engine or transmission oil. Hopefully it's not to bad to fix.

Ted
TJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 11:09 PM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,312
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Scuzzy oil

Is this left over crap in the radiator from previous engine failure?

William
magnakansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2021, 11:12 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
Is this left over crap in the radiator from previous engine failure?

William
No, the the radiator was clean.
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 01:20 AM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,312
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Thoughts

Oil cooler, some sort of gasket failure, crack in a part. I think the oil cooler is the first place I would check. Find some one that is super familiar with that particular engine.

You have come this far, check and recheck. Donít assume anything.

I think a quart of emulsified oil takes about 1/4 of a quart of oil to make. Is the level on the dip stick jive with what you see in the coolant?

William
magnakansas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 01:48 AM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Rwnielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 701
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC1000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
From a marine viewpoint, it looks like a heat exchanger issue. An oil cooler?
Rwnielsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 02:19 AM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
Thanks for the answers.
The oil cooler is new, too, it came with the engine.
But I guess maybe one of the seals or gaskets can be defective, or the unit has not been properly built.
Should I try to order a gaskets kit or a new oil cooler?
I sure hope it is "only" that ...
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 02:26 AM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post

I think a quart of emulsified oil takes about 1/4 of a quart of oil to make. Is the level on the dip stick jive with what you see in the coolant?

William
Oil level doesn't seem lower, still around the top of the "ok" area on the gauge. Hard to read with clean oil.
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 07:27 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 16,557
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
did yopu flush your whole system? heater loops and all? are you sure its engine oil and not transmission fluid?



here is what I would do.. pressurize your cooling system and test for leakdown. if you have oil getting in the water chances are pressurizing the cooling system will emit a slow leakdown as well.. if the cooling system holds then I would make sure the complete system is flush down clean and clear.. heaters, EGR cooler, radiator, etc..



the other thing you can do is pressurize the transmission cooling loops in the radiator and make sure you dont have a transmission fluid leakdown into the radiator.. although a cooling system pressurization should note any leak in that loop as well.



oil cooler is most likely source to see oil in the water but not water in the oil.. a busted head gasket or cracked head thats dumping that much oil will also likely cause your coolant to blast out of the overflow as it over-pressurizes the cap.



same with a broken air compressor head.. youll get some oil but usually a lot of blow-out in the cooling system.



putting the oil cooler together is somewhat of an art and easy to have a leak.. pinching one of the o rings and you get what you have going on. the more I thiunk about it thats probably where I would start. unless oyu had not flushed the complete cooling system front to back.. the oil cooler is usually somewhat reaosnably accessible to remove
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 08:29 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
I'll order a new oil cooler.
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 09:34 AM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 2,873
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
After all you've been through with this,that's a bummer to hear.

I agree that I'd suspect the oil cooler first. But just so you know, if the cooler doesn't fix it, I know these later model dt engines had front cover issues.

To check it, maybe you can drain the cooling system, remove the water pump, and then run the engine to see if you get any oil out of the water pump bore. If you do, I'd highly suspect a front cover vs an oil cooler.
__________________
My build: The Silver Bullet https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/p...llet-9266.html
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 10:13 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
flattracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 370
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
I remember hearing about an old trick to test for blown head gaskets:
A mechanic friend told me about it. Take the vehicle to a place that does smog testing, have them remove the radiator cap, place the tailpipe sensor at the opening with the engine running and look for an emissions reading. Any gasses from within the combustion chambers of the engine that leak into the cooling system are detectable this way.
flattracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 10:36 AM   #13
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
After all you've been through with this,that's a bummer to hear.

I agree that I'd suspect the oil cooler first. But just so you know, if the cooler doesn't fix it, I know these later model dt engines had front cover issues.

To check it, maybe you can drain the cooling system, remove the water pump, and then run the engine to see if you get any oil out of the water pump bore. If you do, I'd highly suspect a front cover vs an oil cooler.
Thanks. !
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 10:45 AM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
s2mikon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,039
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
I will say oil cooler. About 15 years ago I worked for a mine that had a fleet of Mack trucks with e-6 engines and the mental midget that managed the shop decided that extended life coolant would be a good idea to replace the old green coolant they had been using since forever and within a month all the engines had oil in the coolant. The tube bundles in the coolers were soldered together and the ELC attacked the solder and oil began leaking into the coolant under pressure but coolant would not leak to the oil side. I think your Navistar Maxxtrouble engine uses a brazed oil cooler so it is not due to the type of coolant. More than likely just poor quality control. Ford had the same problems with their iteration of Navistar engines. My son in law’s father was the lead tech at the Ford stealership and was a died in the wool Ford man and told me he stayed busy replacing egr and oil coolers in between head gasket jobs.
s2mikon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 10:53 AM   #15
Bus Nut
 
Simplicity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 779
Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
So sorry to hear this.

Sometimes something can seem devastating and turn out to be a $13 diode to fix it.

I get your desire to order parts and replace them, but maybe some of the testing the other posters have suggested to better determine the actual issue would be overall faster and cheaper to get you back on the road.

I'll be thinking positive thoughts for you.

Best of luck.

You WILL succeed!
__________________
Steve
Simplicity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 12:00 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 16,557
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I woulsdnt just order an oil cooler id probably take the old one off and inspect it / test it first
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2021, 10:01 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
I went to the International dealer yesterday, and spoke with one of their mechanics. He said 99% chance there was oil somewhere in the cooling system (but I know it is not the case, and the oil appeared after some hours). If not, his bet is 1. the oil cooler or 2. the front cover. For him, it is not an "internal" failure (block, head gasket, ...) because it would be very very unlikely on a new engine, and I should have coolant in the oil, too.
That's a good news, I guess (and that is what you guys said, already).
I ordered the gasket kits, and I'll start with the oil cooler, seems way easier to do.
About the front cover, there is two parts, "front cover gasket kit - front" and "front cover gasket kit - back". I ordered both (the back one was not expensive). Should I change both, or only the front part?
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2021, 10:04 AM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 16,557
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
can you not go to the people who built the engine and say WTF? it leaks.. fix it
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2021, 10:09 AM   #19
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: On the road
Posts: 348
Year: 2013
Chassis: IC RE
Engine: HT570 / 3500SP
Rated Cap: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
can you not go to the people who built the engine and say WTF? it leaks.. fix it
That would be great. But I don't think they would work for free on an engine built in 2013.
ABBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2021, 01:13 PM   #20
Traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
From seeing your previous posts, OP, I take it you repowered a MaxxForce with something that was supposed to be better?
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.