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Old 05-28-2024, 10:12 AM   #1
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I'm back and bus doesn't start again, nothing with key switch engagement

We solved my previous no start issue in this thread https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/w...ess-43331.html... and now I have created another no start issue.

I was cleaning up remaining wiring at my body fuse and relay panel and may have inadvertently cut another connection, although I cannot recall how.

Here is the real problem, The electrical TM “2011-2015 IC Bus BE / CE Series Electrical Circuit Diagrams
(Supersedes S08377)” is a base configuration for the platform and does not cover specifics.

So I should be able to rely on my door panel for bus specific and I’ve found a couple of circuits that don’t match the door panel ��.


Anyways, I do have a circuit #40 and it seems interrupted so I am now beginning my chase and making my own diagram as I cannot find circuit #40 outlined in any manual I’ve gotten my hands on.

Here is the map I have created based on current configuration as it sits.

I’ve traced them to the composite connectors but cannot find the composite connectors J1006, J1007, and J140 in the electrical manual.


I am completely lost at the moment and hoping someone can provide the piece I am missing here. I can’t even determine if this is the relays as I missing an important understanding of the the manual circuits are labeled.


Here is what I am currently looking at if it helps paint the picture better.




Right now I don’t even get power to panel when moving key to acc or start positions. Nothing.

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Old 05-28-2024, 06:42 PM   #2
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I thought we banned you from cutting more wires ????

question: how are you uploading your pics, I can't seem to resize them when I click on them.

I can't read what circuit 40 is for/does.

I tried zooming in the best I can on your first picture and what I can make out, really blurry, is that circuit 40 is tied to the "noise" disconnect wiring ???

I'm straight out guessing here but isn't the "Noise" cancelation circuit design to actually turn OFF devices on the circuit so the driver could hear any potential outside sounds like a train or car horn or just somebody yelling out loud near the bus?

If this is the case then did you inadvertently "Disconnect" power to where you need it?

Again just guessing as I really can't figure out what your message really is...
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Old 05-29-2024, 08:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
I thought we banned you from cutting more wires ????

question: how are you uploading your pics, I can't seem to resize them when I click on them.

I can't read what circuit 40 is for/does.

I tried zooming in the best I can on your first picture and what I can make out, really blurry, is that circuit 40 is tied to the "noise" disconnect wiring ???

I'm straight out guessing here but isn't the "Noise" cancelation circuit design to actually turn OFF devices on the circuit so the driver could hear any potential outside sounds like a train or car horn or just somebody yelling out loud near the bus?

If this is the case then did you inadvertently "Disconnect" power to where you need it?

Again just guessing as I really can't figure out what your message really is...
You did, I don't listen very well. I swear I'm done after this since I will have successfully removed all bus platform wiring not in use. �� I’m accustomed to technical manuals being correct so this has been a real eye opener trying to tackle these bypasses that are all baked into the body circuit but not well documented.

I use the forum tools to upload images and use the [IMG] and [URL] tags. I assume this form is downscaling and compressing them beyond reading so here is a drive link that will be public for a short while.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...ic?usp=sharing

Circuit #40 (according to the door panel) is the start accessory circuit so I assume it is correct since I was messing around the relay bank and now nothing with the key inserted. But I have a real issue when I am trying to chase it in the manual (in the drive link above is what I am referencing) as I am unsure how they are marked and searching for circuit #40 is not helpful either.

I have identified a couple of inaccuracies from the door panel and my actual config so I am mapping them all again now and the PDF is in the drive link of what I could determine so far when I was out there last weekend.

Current bank of relays: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XyzP05CZMc8zANgW5haYepZPTrQuG4BG/view?usp=drive_link

The door panel identifies circuit #40 as Ignition Relay: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kf9...usp=drive_link

Which matches the 3 marked of 10 relays that were present: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Lp...ew?usp=sharing

And here is the connector composite chart on the door where I X out the ones I don’t have present: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L0-...ew?usp=sharing

And I believe this may be the circuit I am looking for: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ala...ew?usp=sharing

Which is on page 53 of this manual PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_09...ew?usp=sharing

I hope this provides much better context of where I think I need to focus. Im sure something in this map needs closed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19Yo...ew?usp=sharing

I am spinning my wheels with the manual.
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Old 05-29-2024, 08:12 PM   #4
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1st. Take a picture and upload it to your post. We can then click on it and zoom in. Take a pic with your phone camera, upload done.

2nd. WTF

3rd I consider the last wiring repair a lucky success.

4th. Go back to basics. Does your engine turn over, if no. Check signal wire at starter for power. If no, pull out wire diagram and work your way back. Maybe you will stumble upon what was cut or disconnected.

5 I would say check fuses and relays but given the situation........

6. I am not aware of noise suppression preventing a bus from not starting. It turns off heaters, am/FM radio and whatever noise makers.

7. WTF
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Old 05-30-2024, 07:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnibot2000 View Post
4th. Go back to basics. Does your engine turn over, if no. Check signal wire at starter for power. If no, pull out wire diagram and work your way back. Maybe you will stumble upon what was cut or disconnected.
I have to start at the ignition switch then because I've lost any reaction in ACC or Start positions.

I've said WTF a lot recently myself.
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Old 05-30-2024, 01:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AllisonWanderland View Post
I have to start at the ignition switch then because I've lost any reaction in ACC or Start positions.

I've said WTF a lot recently myself.
LOL, I also said WTF when I read that you went ahead and cut more wires... LOL...

Your best starting point now would be at the key switch/starting circuit.
Before you begin, what color were the wires you were cutting?

Also, If I remember correctly, doesn't your bus have a Body control Module (BCM)??

When troubleshooting problem circuitry it is always best to start from the very beginning, power supply and grounds.

Take a look at the pic, check all those points in green. write down the voltages you find and post it back up so we can track what your verifying.

A question in my mind...is the BCM getting it's voltage and could the BCM be causing your no power/no start issues?

I don't know but YOU will let us know?
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Old 06-03-2024, 06:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
LOL, I also said WTF when I read that you went ahead and cut more wires... LOL...

Your best starting point now would be at the key switch/starting circuit.
Before you begin, what color were the wires you were cutting?

Also, If I remember correctly, doesn't your bus have a Body control Module (BCM)??

When troubleshooting problem circuitry it is always best to start from the very beginning, power supply and grounds.

Take a look at the pic, check all those points in green. write down the voltages you find and post it back up so we can track what your verifying.

A question in my mind...is the BCM getting it's voltage and could the BCM be causing your no power/no start issues?

I don't know but YOU will let us know?
I do have a BCM and it is in this bank of relays circuit for sure.

I am doing more homework and completely remapping my diagram tonight and attempting my best to chase the ignition circuit through the BCM this week.

I made some progress today in the mapping of circuits and also at least got power on with the first key position clockwise by bypassing noise suppression and feeding a live 12v to circuit #40.

PDF attached is what I have mapped and is the current state of the circuits regarding flying leads not being connected to anything right now.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Bus-Eletrical-Mapping-compressed.pdf (468.6 KB, 2 views)
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Old 06-04-2024, 03:41 PM   #8
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I'll be watching this one.
My no start "self corrected" (of I wriggled some corrosion off somewhere without knowing it) some time ago but I'm waiting....LOL
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Old 06-04-2024, 05:52 PM   #9
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Talking

Anthony Fouci cured it. I knew that would get you.
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Old 06-05-2024, 09:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by HamSkoolie View Post
I'll be watching this one.
My no start "self corrected" (of I wriggled some corrosion off somewhere without knowing it) some time ago but I'm waiting....LOL
When people ask me why I am going through this pain and cutting all these wires... this is precisely why.

I need to understand what is going on and minimize potential faults before I'm out in a remote area and cannot troubleshoot or repair a no start issue.

I'll be posting updates in this thread until resolved so it is documented.
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Old 06-05-2024, 09:34 AM   #11
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Video updates from this Mondays work and troubleshooting. I get one day a week to go work on it.

I bypassed a noise suppression circuit and have achieved power for IGN on position. Still no ACC or START. but I am starting to get the trace down.

https://www.tiktok.com/@allisonwande...44635650786862

https://www.tiktok.com/@allisonwande...44635650786862
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Old 06-05-2024, 09:40 AM   #12
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonWanderland View Post
When people ask me why I am going through this pain and cutting all these wires... this is precisely why.

I need to understand what is going on and minimize potential faults before I'm out in a remote area and cannot troubleshoot or repair a no start issue.
Good attitude. We are apt to think of pulling wires as "mucking with things", but it would be equally fair to consider it as "unmucking things". These buses were made with different usage cases in mind, and a good deal of their wiring often does not make sense for a skoolie.
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Old 06-05-2024, 09:46 AM   #13
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I'm considering push button start while I'm here... https://a.co/d/att5Sx9
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Old 06-05-2024, 09:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Marceps View Post
Good attitude. We are apt to think of pulling wires as "mucking with things", but it would be equally fair to consider it as "unmucking things". These buses were made with different usage cases in mind, and a good deal of their wiring often does not make sense for a skoolie.
100% This!

I am even finding the door panel diagram is not 100% accurate to my buses actual configuration so I will have obtained truth and confidence once I have this all figured out.

yes it sucks, but I believe it to be worth it when I need to depend on this platform.
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Old 06-06-2024, 04:07 PM   #15
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I've literally pulled several THOUSAND feet of conductors out of my rig.
Over 20 feet of battery cables.
ALL the stupid
"we trust you to drive the bus but not to do your pre trip" RFID garbage.
The "check there are no kids left when you park" circuitry
The camera circuitry, camera, hard drive, et al


I'd guess my rig lost at least half a ton before we start adding up flooring, steel walls and ceiling, excess windows, etc.


ALL, systems and components that can no longer fail whether electrical or mechanical.
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Old 06-06-2024, 04:42 PM   #16
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Silly me, I haven't pulled one single wire...but I did cut dead some unnecessary circuits like door and window alarms.

I just labeled the wires on both ends and saving them for just in case future work.

Hell, what can 500 feet of 16ga wire weigh, 100-150 lbs ???
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Old 06-06-2024, 07:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
Silly me, I haven't pulled one single wire...but I did cut dead some unnecessary circuits like door and window alarms.

I just labeled the wires on both ends and saving them for just in case future work.

Hell, what can 500 feet of 16ga wire weigh, 100-150 lbs ???
No way 100-150 lbs. We purchase 100 foot rolls of wire at a time. 5-6 pounds a roll. 25-30 lbs for 500 feet my guess

In the end. By pass what's not needed, like starter interrupt on my bus. Disconnected power source to light wiring that is not needed. After that it's just ..... wire. A piece of wire that is terminated when you single out the purpose of it is just wire. It sits dormant, who cares, a disconnected wire will not blow up a bus.

The case now is when you hook up a scanner there will be an insane amount of codes the BCM will fault out for open circuits. You now have the potential of greatly hindering a diagnoses when a fault occurs.

You could have easily gone into the BCM and just switch off the functions and left everything alone.

Two different ways of dealing with the issue. If I recieved a car, truck, airplane that had wiring chopped out and then asked to diagnose. I would decline the job and I have declined jobs like this in the past
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Old 06-07-2024, 09:54 AM   #18
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I saved all the school lights wires in both busses.. in my red bus I left the Weldon 8000 flasher device but disconnected the main power feeds to it but left the rest of the wires on it so I know where they all go... when i wanted to use a couple for new speakers I knew right where to go to pull the wire off the weldon and use it in the bus.. same with the rear A/C in the dev bus.. i need control wires for the relay board.. those old school light wires were just the ticket..
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Old 06-07-2024, 11:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie View Post
I've literally pulled several THOUSAND feet of conductors out of my rig.
Over 20 feet of battery cables.
ALL the stupid
"we trust you to drive the bus but not to do your pre trip" RFID garbage.
The "check there are no kids left when you park" circuitry
The camera circuitry, camera, hard drive, et al


I'd guess my rig lost at least half a ton before we start adding up flooring, steel walls and ceiling, excess windows, etc.


ALL, systems and components that can no longer fail whether electrical or mechanical.
This is the way
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Old 06-07-2024, 10:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I saved all the school lights wires in both busses.. in my red bus I left the Weldon 8000 flasher device but disconnected the main power feeds to it but left the rest of the wires on it so I know where they all go... when i wanted to use a couple for new speakers I knew right where to go to pull the wire off the weldon and use it in the bus.. same with the rear A/C in the dev bus.. i need control wires for the relay board.. those old school light wires were just the ticket..
In my 3Box, this is all that I've removed so far. I can see the flasher lights for the front and back and are cut prior to me owning it, but are just sitting there. I've thought about adding new lights there for when I'm at a camp ground and need some area lights.

My wiring I've visually traced to the back, it's very simple on the 3box. Not a lot extra stuff.
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