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Old 08-30-2019, 10:19 AM   #1
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In-Frame on flat nose FE?

Hey alls..


We're starting to look into bigger buses now that our family has grown a bit and we are strongly considering an IH based FE flat nose. My question is, when the time comes, is it possible to do an in-frame on these? How much harder are they to work on? Is there hatches inside for access?


Thanks
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:31 AM   #2
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There will be a hatch on the inside, but it's not going to make every job easy. I think I technically have enough access to get the head off, where access to the injection pump and air compressor is extremely limited.

A rear engine would be the easiest for major work, and I get a little sad when I see how accessible everything is in them...
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:41 AM   #3
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Problem is we are wanting to build it in a way where we can park our jeep on the rear and still have enough living space to be comfortable.


In that instance, rear engines are out. It's either a traditional long nose or flat nose FE.


Thanks for the input!
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:46 AM   #4
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I think dead pirate recenty did a DT466E FE..



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Old 08-30-2019, 10:50 AM   #5
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International RE's are not my favorite RE config because instead of the radiators off to the side they put it across the back so you have mainly side access..



I got to spend some time areond a CAT 3126 RE this past weekend at a bus rally and it was nice to get to..



Brokedown;s 5.9 FE seems like its packed tight in there.. im not sure how he put belts on that thing.. someone needs to come up with a hinged-radiator flex hose system for those..

if doing an in-frame of course you'll have the rad / CAC out anyway so access will be much easier with doghouse open and full front access.. likely easier at that point than an RE or CE to work on.. its those times when you arent doing a teardown that it seems accessibility on an FE is an issue


-Christopher
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:45 PM   #6
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Thanks for the insight.


We aren't set on a flat nose as they are somewhat hard to come by in my area where as I can get "just off route" full size traditional buses for ~2-3k all day and drive home in 45 minutes or so.


We are just in the planning stages right now so not sure what'll happen but we'll see.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:14 PM   #7
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DT466E Inframe

I just finished my inframe on my FE DT466E. Not hard at all, just takes time and patience.

Found a Fleetrite kit for 1280 for pistons, liners, all bearings and all gaskets.

I also doubled up on the lifter dog bones on behest of a veteran Navistar tech.

I put a turbo cartridge in also, cheap way to rebuild a turbo.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:26 PM   #8
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While a dog nose may be easier to work, it does not automatically mean an FE is hard to work on. I would never base my purchase on ease of doing an engine replacement. I would buy what I want and deal with engine swap IF and when it happens.
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:11 PM   #9
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While a dog nose may be easier to work, it does not automatically mean an FE is hard to work on. I would never base my purchase on ease of doing an engine replacement. I would buy what I want and deal with engine swap IF and when it happens.
Me too, Marc.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
International RE's are not my favorite RE config because instead of the radiators off to the side they put it across the back so you have mainly side access..



I got to spend some time areond a CAT 3126 RE this past weekend at a bus rally and it was nice to get to..



Brokedown;s 5.9 FE seems like its packed tight in there.. im not sure how he put belts on that thing.. someone needs to come up with a hinged-radiator flex hose system for those..

if doing an in-frame of course you'll have the rad / CAC out anyway so access will be much easier with doghouse open and full front access.. likely easier at that point than an RE or CE to work on.. its those times when you arent doing a teardown that it seems accessibility on an FE is an issue


-Christopher
I checked out BrewerBob's Blue Bird RE and I was amazed at the engine access. It's like a workshop tacked on the end of the bus with the engine hanging up nicely in the middle of it.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:26 AM   #11
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Me too, Marc.

Well... I currently am in an E350 based shorty which only has ~3" over the heads making it "nearly" impossible to do head gaskets on the engine with it in the frame... and IDIs are known for killing head gaskets.


With our next purchase (since I do all of the wrench turning).. I want to make certain that I'm not going to hate life come time to do major work (and since the DT is known for losing liner seals after sitting.. I think its a reasonable way of thinking).


With our plans.. the extra 3-4' of interior space isn't going to make or break us.. so long nose vs flat isn't a deal breaker... However, if there is plenty of room to do major work on the FE, I'll look for an FE as that is now the deciding factor.


Sounds like I'll be fine either route we take. Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:16 AM   #12
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Well any major engine issues in a van-shorty will be no fun.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:03 PM   #13
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Well any major engine issues in a van-shorty will be no fun.

You got that right! Lol. We'll be on the hunt here soon.. hoping to land once by the end of the year but we'll see. Until then, we'll cruise the shorty around.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:15 PM   #14
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Well any major engine issues in a van-shorty will be no fun.
I had an E450 Thomas for a while. I took it to a local mechanic who used to be a fleet mechanic for an outfit that had a bunch of similar year E450 box trucks. He told me that for many repairs the lifted the body off of the frame to gain access to the engine.

It's doubtful that I would buy another. I am on the hunt for a nice "full size " shorty with a 12v 5.9 and MT-643 or (I wish) a 2000 series.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:37 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
Well... I currently am in an E350 based shorty which only has ~3" over the heads making it "nearly" impossible to do head gaskets on the engine with it in the frame... and IDIs are known for killing head gaskets.


With our next purchase (since I do all of the wrench turning).. I want to make certain that I'm not going to hate life come time to do major work (and since the DT is known for losing liner seals after sitting.. I think its a reasonable way of thinking).


With our plans.. the extra 3-4' of interior space isn't going to make or break us.. so long nose vs flat isn't a deal breaker... However, if there is plenty of room to do major work on the FE, I'll look for an FE as that is now the deciding factor.


Sounds like I'll be fine either route we take. Thanks for the help.
I've pulled a 7.3 from a E350, let me tell you that is a MASSIVE PAIN with the body on. You have to pull the water/oil cooler, oil pan, and flywheel to get the engine in and out, not to mention the rad and grill and all that fun stuff too. Then going back in you have to put the oil pan on with the engine hanging in the bay. Not sure which is worse pulling engines on motor homes or a E van, both are chores I hope to never do again.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #16
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I've pulled a 7.3 from a E350, let me tell you that is a MASSIVE PAIN with the body on. You have to pull the water/oil cooler, oil pan, and flywheel to get the engine in and out, not to mention the rad and grill and all that fun stuff too. Then going back in you have to put the oil pan on with the engine hanging in the bay. Not sure which is worse pulling engines on motor homes or a E van, both are chores I hope to never do again.
I've never enjoyed working on vans, nor met anyone who does!
I always look for a 6 cyl if buying a van, that way I have a little more room to change belts and stuff.
Watching vids of spark plug changes on diesel and 6.8 ford vans makes me so glad I dont' own one.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #17
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I've never enjoyed working on vans, nor met anyone who does!
I always look for a 6 cyl if buying a van, that way I have a little more room to change belts and stuff.
Watching vids of spark plug changes on diesel and 6.8 ford vans makes me so glad I dont' own one.
"Watching vids of spark plug changes on diesel" You should see them change a carb on a diesel too.... LOL.

I own a Evan but it's just got the ol 5.8L gasser in it, I wish it were the 7.3 PSD, but changing plugs last year wasn't really that bad through the dog house, easier than changing them on a ranger with the AC crap in the way I'll tell you what.
But I sure wouldn't want to do much work on it, only good thing is once the trans/slush box dies in it it will be easy to pull since all the bolts are super easy to get to from the doghouse. Trans in my van shudders all the time, but it's been doing that since I bought it 2 years ago so who knows, I had automatics unless it's an Allison.
What's funny is I towed a camper (28')for a man at the first of the year about 300 miles and it never shuddered once while under a load but as soon as the trailer was off it it went right back to it, no slipping at all either.
I'm not a auto trans man at all, I'm just waiting on it to crap out and i'll rebuild the trans.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:39 PM   #18
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"Watching vids of spark plug changes on diesel" You should see them change a carb on a diesel too.... LOL.

I own a Evan but it's just got the ol 5.8L gasser in it, I wish it were the 7.3 PSD, but changing plugs last year wasn't really that bad through the dog house, easier than changing them on a ranger with the AC crap in the way I'll tell you what.
But I sure wouldn't want to do much work on it, only good thing is once the trans/slush box dies in it it will be easy to pull since all the bolts are super easy to get to from the doghouse. Trans in my van shudders all the time, but it's been doing that since I bought it 2 years ago so who knows, I had automatics unless it's an Allison.
What's funny is I towed a camper (28')for a man at the first of the year about 300 miles and it never shuddered once while under a load but as soon as the trailer was off it it went right back to it, no slipping at all either.
I'm not a auto trans man at all, I'm just waiting on it to crap out and i'll rebuild the trans.
My post was meant to read "spark plug changes on 6.8 v10's and working on diesels... My bad. Had heat exhaustion today!
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:40 PM   #19
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My post was meant to read "spark plug changes on 6.8 v10's and working on diesels... My bad. Had heat exhaustion today!
Yeah it's hot here to, I know it was a typo and you know diesels better than that I just couldn't help myself. Just poking fun at ya.
Hope you get to feeling better bud, take care.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:43 PM   #20
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Yeha no worries man. I got overheated trimming some hedges and had to lay down in the shade.
Was *only* 91 today and there was a nice gentle breeze. That's how it snuck up on me.
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