Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-17-2020, 08:17 AM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Intercooler/Radiator Delete?

Good morning!


So I've been looking at my radiator/intercooler combo setup (International with a Navistar T444e) after someone mentioned it in another thread.



Seems like a really small radiator to have.


Has anyone replaced the stock intercooler/radiator combo with a larger radiator and a separate intercooler?


Seems like this would greatly improve cooling for that engine!
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 09:09 AM   #2
Bus Nut
 
CHEESE_WAGON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
Depends. I may be off base here, but seems to me that diesels rely on a certain amount of heat to run properly, and technically they burn cleaner as they run hotter. Turbocharging compresses (thereby heating) the intake charge, which could help combustion to a point. Cast iron has its limitations, however. You also mention you have a T444e. If you upgrade cooling, you may find you've altered the operating temp adversely to the point it may not run properly. For illustration....



Granted, this is a cold start video, and it won't make it run that poorly, but I can see where temp drop could affect operation. You say you have a T444E. If this is electronically managed, a drop in temperature could drive the computer nuts. I've seen that with gas engines that had a thermostat stuck open. Also, if you're in a cooler / colder climate, you may have problems with heat and defrost in the winter. I have seen this as well, also with a gas engine that might not be as picky about operating temp.

For example. I remember years ago when I drove a taxi, the idiot I was leasing a car from cobbled up a home remedy when the radiator started leaking. It was a front-drive Buick with a V6. The original radiator was two-core, he swapped in a radiator from a 90 Caprice wagon with a V8 that was three-core. Oh, sure it dropped operating temp about 15-20 degrees in the summer and the car could idle all day with the A/C on and never break 175. But one night I had to take someone somewhere in an ice storm on urgent government business, and I was having to stop the car occasionally and let it idle to warm up, because the windshield was icing over and there was no heat. When the car was moving, it could not maintain operating temperature, so the defroster and heat would not warm up.

So if that applies here and you upgrade the radiator, you may have to consider weatherfronts in the winter, but I would think any drastic temperature drops would affect diesel operation, as it relies on a certain amount of heat for proper combustion. If it were an older T444 or 7.3 IDI, I might say go for it if the IP is adjustable, but with electronic control, you may be asking for trouble.

Now, if you're concerned about temperature on hills, you might consider oil and transmission fluid coolers if not already equipped, or perhaps upgrading to larger or auxiliary ones. With those fluids you should be concerned more about heat, as oil not only lubricates, but also helps to cool. Cooler oil = cooler engine, cooler engine = cooler trans fluid (assuming your factory trans fluid cooler is in the radiator like most vehicles). And cooler trans fluid = happier trans, which could also mean a cooler engine if the factory trans cooler is integral with the radiator. If your trans is an AT545, it needs all the help it can get.

The logic here is that a larger radiator and intercooler may drop the engine temp too much, while an oil cooler and aux trans cooler may not. Say, for instance, a larger radiator might drop temp 30-40 degrees, as I have seen, where an oil cooler / trans cooler kit might drop temps 15 degrees, enough to help fight overheating in severe conditions, but not affect combustion or heater/defrost operation.

Others may chime in on this, just my $0.02.
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 12:09 PM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
That sounds like a logical explanation.


This is my first foray into the world of diesel, so I'm still pretty ignorant of how they work.

The engine oil and tranny cooler idea seems like a great option.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:08 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,516
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Joe is yours the split radiator or a full one?
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:33 PM   #5
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,848
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
trans coolers can help.. although you being an 04 likely have an allison 2000 transmission which doesnt make a lot of heat.. but an external cooler is easy for the trans..


the factory 7.3 engine oil cooler is efficient, there are no or very few aftermarket ones made that I know of as the factory one did a great job.. plenty of 6.0 oil coolers but they are 2 very diferent engines..



if you really want an external oil cooler you could repurpose a bypass oil filter system to run oil through an external cooler
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:37 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Joe is yours the split radiator or a full one?

I was told it's the split one.
It's at the mechanic right now. Should be picking it up later today or tomorrow, and I can make sure, though I,m not sure how.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:39 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
trans coolers can help.. although you being an 04 likely have an allison 2000 transmission which doesnt make a lot of heat.. but an external cooler is easy for the trans..


the factory 7.3 engine oil cooler is efficient, there are no or very few aftermarket ones made that I know of as the factory one did a great job.. plenty of 6.0 oil coolers but they are 2 very diferent engines..



if you really want an external oil cooler you could repurpose a bypass oil filter system to run oil through an external cooler

I'll have to look at that option.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 03:11 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a bigger radiator and a dedicated intercooler.

I've been hearing from other owners that they have the fan working almost all the time to keep the engine cool, or that it turns on a lot. This tells me that the radiator/intercooler combo isn't adequate to properly cool the engine.



Seems like a full sized radiator and separate intercooler are the way to go. My understanding is that the intercooler cools the air from the turbo, so why wouldn't it be better to have the separate intercooler in front of the radiator? Seems like this would allow the intercooler to work more efficiently while allowing the radiator to also work more efficiently.



I figure in the winter I can cover the grill like I see some trucks do to help with warm up.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 03:15 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,516
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe45 View Post
I was told it's the split one.
It's at the mechanic right now. Should be picking it up later today or tomorrow, and I can make sure, though I,m not sure how.
I had an 04 CE300 IC bus. It had a full radiator and cac. Maybe you could get that rad setup for yours.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 03:58 PM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Joe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 402
Year: 2004
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444e Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I had an 04 CE300 IC bus. It had a full radiator and cac. Maybe you could get that rad setup for yours.



I'm leaning towards a setup like that. Just seems logical.
Joe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×