King pins bad?

[Desertsparky]

I was told the king pins on the front end would need to be replaced sooner than later by the previous owner. He has turned out to be wrong on a couple things so I'd like to test myself before I pay someone to do this. I've seen a few videos about jacking up the front of the bus. What size jack do I need to check? Do both wheels need to be off the ground? Seems like one at a time would be safer haha. Does anyone have a rough cost to replace? Keep in mind I'm in the southwest where nothing is cheap haha

[La Camioneta]

Year, make and model would be a good start, ainna?

[Dbacks2k4]

Around here mom and pop shops love to add king pins to their inspections because it's one of those things thats easy to mark as needing replacing before they REALLY need to be replaced... It's a grey area between "passing safety standards" and being "100% perfect" ... And they can make bank on the labor.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4

Around here mom and pop shops love to add king pins to their inspections because it's one of those things thats easy to mark as needing replacing before they REALLY need to be replaced... It's a grey area between "passing safety standards" and being "100% perfect" ... And they can make bank on the labor.

This is so true. And not just small shops.

And no, only one wheel needs to be off the ground for the checking. Jack it up off the ground and then use a pry bar and a block of wood to lever the wheel up, while watching the kingpin for play. Sometimes it's just the shims which need replacing, sometimes the kingpin itself, or they might be fine.

[Desertsparky]

Sorry I keep forgetting to add that haha. 2003 ic it says 200 on the body but 300 on the title. T444e allison 2000

[cadillackid]

if its a 444E its a CE200, the CE300 came with a DT466E.


kingpins if left to go to long can ruin the spindle knuckle or ruin the axle itself..



IMO they suck to do on IH but once done they make a huge difference. also get the covers with grease zerks in the top and bottom sides so yiu can properly grease then all through..

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by Desertsparky

Sorry I keep forgetting to add that haha. 2003 ic it says 200 on the body but 300 on the title. T444e allison 2000

Amtran service manual - front axle post #3

You will find info here on how to check/ replace your king pins in this thread

[Booyah45828]

I've replaced my king pins several years back. I had slop in the right side that was actually between the pin and axle, and wasn't in the bushings or bearing itself. I used a special locktite that was designed to take up excessive clearance on that, and it surprisingly worked. Otherwise I'd have needed to have the hole reamed out for an insert, or gotten a new axle.

Use a jack and a prybar to check. Don't forget to chock the wheels. TBH "good" play is in the thousandths of an inch range, so any slop that you can visibly see is likely no good. Make sure the movement is actually in the pin, and not the wheel bearings. If you're doing one side at a time, and it's a conventional bus, a 6 ton jack should be enough. Do it on a flat, level surface, that's preferably concrete. Use a jack stand too.

FWIW most pins need to be greased with the axle raised anyways. So this jack will have more then one use.

Tight pins make a world of difference to an alignment, drivability, and tire life.

[Desertsparky]

Ok thanks. I was wondering is this something I would notice while driving?

[Booyah45828]

Yes, if they're worn, and depending on how worn they are.

Replacing the king pins and rebuilding my gear box(was leaking) made the bus drive night and day differently.

[mmoore6856]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

I've replaced my king pins several years back. I had slop in the right side that was actually between the pin and axle, and wasn't in the bushings or bearing itself. I used a special locktite that was designed to take up excessive clearance on that, and it surprisingly worked. Otherwise I'd have needed to have the hole reamed out for an insert, or gotten a new axle.

Use a jack and a prybar to check. Don't forget to chock the wheels. TBH "good" play is in the thousandths of an inch range, so any slop that you can visibly see is likely no good. Make sure the movement is actually in the pin, and not the wheel bearings. If you're doing one side at a time, and it's a conventional bus, a 6 ton jack should be enough. Do it on a flat, level surface, that's preferably concrete. Use a jack stand too.

FWIW most pins need to be greased with the axle raised anyways. So this jack will have more then one use.

Tight pins make a world of difference to an alignment, drivability, and tire life.

yea i been turning wrenches over 40 years and will validate this post

[BigPaul367]

Use a 10 ton bottle jack. Place the Jack under the axle under the spring. Never jack the front up with the Bottle Jack in the center of the axle, if for no other reason that it is safer to have at least one wheel on the ground no matter what.
lift the tire off the ground only twice the thickness of a Tire iron of Pry Bar. Use a pry bar, under the tire, lift up hard enough to look for movement or to hear a clunk noise. Have someone look at the inside of the tire/hub and verify that the movement is indeed coming from the King Pins and NOT from the wheel bearings. If you can see movement in the king pins they are worn out. Most of the time, with proper maintenance (Grease the suspension, regularly!) you will see only a few thousandths of movement. If you see the entire wheel, rim, hub and knuckle assembly jump about a quarter of an inch or more, the KPs are shot! Average cost runs between $600 and $1,200 for this job. Which includes honing the new bushings to fit the new pins. For best king pin life, grease them every 250 hours of operation, grease is cheap, this job is NOT!! I am a mechanic with 46 years experience. I've done this hundreds of times.

Originally Posted by Desertsparky

I was told the king pins on the front end would need to be replaced sooner than later by the previous owner. He has turned out to be wrong on a couple things so I'd like to test myself before I pay someone to do this. I've seen a few videos about jacking up the front of the bus. What size jack do I need to check? Do both wheels need to be off the ground? Seems like one at a time would be safer haha. Does anyone have a rough cost to replace? Keep in mind I'm in the southwest where nothing is cheap haha

[Mercuric Mind]

Thanks guys for all the great info as usual!

This is a timely post for me because I will be replacing my shocks and will check the king pins at the same time. The right side front shock is toast, those always take more hits on the side of the road, but it will be all new on all four corners.

[BarnYardCamp]

since you'll already have one tire off the ground....try to move the raised tire left and right as if steering...that should show any loose tire rod ends and such that may need attention. On a car, you can do this by hand, on a bus??
BigPaul...how's it done?

[mmoore6856]

One last note here greasing is like changing oil. Pump till clean grease comes out even on u joints as you want all the dirt and old grease to get flushed out. If you don't want a mess just wipe it down when done

[Desertsparky]

awesome info thank you all. if we are talking minor play would you consider it an immediate need repair or can we get another cross country out of it?

[BarnYardCamp]

"Minor play" Too subjective....what's minor to one person wouldn't be to the next.
Thing is, if it is minor, the repairs could be cheaper now than if you push it too far and cause damage to other involved components.

[mmoore6856]

If it ain't shaking at 60 or 65 you probably could get one more trip do grease the hell out of it while on the road

[Desertsparky]

Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp

"Minor play" Too subjective....what's minor to one person wouldn't be to the next.
Thing is, if it is minor, the repairs could be cheaper now than if you push it too far and cause damage to other involved components.

haha true. I'm an electrician. smoking walls to some people is no big deal. I always forget that most people are not "reasonable".

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

If it ain't shaking at 60 or 65 you probably could get one more trip do grease the hell out of it while on the road

Ive noticed a minor vibration one or twice but it never repeats consistently. I'll do the test before our summer trip.

[Booyah45828]

Yeah minor play is definitely subjective.

The spec is in the thousandths range. IMO, minor play would be double that, so .020", which would still be hard to detect with the eye. If you can see movement, you very likely don't have minor play.

Can you take it across country like that? Probably. You could also do it with 6 bald tires and a 20 year old set of v belts. Just know that it's a gamble and there could be consequences.