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08-17-2020, 04:04 PM
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#61
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Hungry
What size tires are you running? The 245/70-19.5?
At 611 Rev/Mile, 4.78 gear, and 0.610 O/D, you should be seeing just over 1900 at 65 MPH.
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the allison 2000 series prior to 2006 is a 5 speed and has an OD (5th) of 0.74,
the allison MD3060 was 6 speed in all years however in school busses they are shipped with 6 gear disabled.. 5th gear has an OD od 0.75
the allison 1000 series (used in IC BE series and some freightliner FS65s) was 5 speed prior to 2006 and had an OD of 0.71 (5th gear)..
the 6th gear on later allison 2000's is 0.64 for the 2500 PTS (pupil transport) version..
the 6th gear on later allison 1000's is 0.61
the 6th gear on allison MD3060 is 0.65
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08-17-2020, 04:08 PM
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#62
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I need to turn the power up on the DEV bus.. now that I have 3 Air conditioners (2 compressors) running it is gutless on the hills even with a MT643.. I just finished a nice road trip in it.. however even in dallas where temp was 104 and heat index was 117 one day i was plenty nice n cool in the driver seat.. painting the roof white would help my situation some on that bus.. my ceiling gets HOT to the touch even with the air conditioning blasting..
unfortunately php cant help with power on that engine since its a mechanical.. I need to weigh that bus.. it drives like a heavy bus..
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08-20-2020, 11:17 AM
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#63
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 508
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Hungry
What size tires are you running? The 245/70-19.5?
At 611 Rev/Mile, 4.78 gear, and 0.610 O/D, you should be seeing just over 1900 at 65 MPH.
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My Tires are 255.70.22.5
I haven't really driven the bus any distances yet to really get an idea on what it actually does.
I've been on the expressway twice... I've been around town a lot now since the swap.
but no sustained trip yet. This is tomorrow 8/21, first one.
I am mostly guessing at the moment that my shift points are where they should be. I've never driven a school bus before, so kinda flying blind.
I drive a Hino lorry for work, it's a inline six and no mountains... Before that in the military I drove straight drive and again no mountains so no worries.
tomorrow I go to a friends place that is 4 hours north in West VA to get some massive free help with a good bit of metal projects.
Turns out my first trip is going to be right through the fancy gap pass, and I have been on it before in cars and our camper van (petrol cars) and she is steep. yikes
So yes I would like to learn a bit more about the trans/engine/shift points and where the sweet spot is. I plan to take some detailed notes and pics of revs and etc.
one question is how low a revs is "too low" and considered "lugging"
I imagine I would "feel it" and be alarmed... but any foresight is great lads
I've looked at the pyrometers and will be ordering and installing when I get back... too late to get before the trip. It's madness that Fahrenheit is twice the price of a Celcius gauge.... you americans lol
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08-20-2020, 11:55 AM
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#64
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Montana/Texas
Posts: 682
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Crown by Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
Rated Cap: 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
unfortunately php cant help with power on that engine since its a mechanical.. I need to weigh that bus.. it drives like a heavy bus..
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Is the DEV bus 9-window? That's what mine is...empty (before conversion)she weighs around 13-14000 lbs. When I’m loaded with everything and towing Jeep, she weighs around 23,500 (19k bus, 4500lbs Jeep)! GVW is 25,500...
John
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08-20-2020, 02:33 PM
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#65
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbloem1974
Is the DEV bus 9-window? That's what mine is...empty (before conversion)she weighs around 13-14000 lbs. When I’m loaded with everything and towing Jeep, she weighs around 23,500 (19k bus, 4500lbs Jeep)! GVW is 25,500...
John
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its A 7 window with a GVWR of 27500, ive not weighted it but it drives like a heavy bus.
as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..
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08-20-2020, 02:42 PM
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#66
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 508
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
i
as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..
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thanks
am worried about the trip but the prize at the end makes it a must
Bluefire and EGT is in the works, but cannot make it here before the trip so winging it
Going with the one shows EGT in C as is cheaper and looks same gauge
but this gives a good starting point to get my head around it as I start to actually USE the bus vs build it in the yard
thanking you
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08-20-2020, 02:55 PM
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#67
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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EGT in C there are lots of different gauges.. most are equal.. big thing is locating the probe BEFORE the turbo.. I put mine in the driver side manifold just past the last cylinder. and right before the up-pipe connects..
this is thought to be the hottest place on a T444E
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08-20-2020, 03:03 PM
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#68
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 508
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
EGT in C there are lots of different gauges.. most are equal.. big thing is locating the probe BEFORE the turbo.. I put mine in the driver side manifold just past the last cylinder. and right before the up-pipe connects..
this is thought to be the hottest place on a T444E
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then I shall make it so
the cost of F gauges is double
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08-20-2020, 04:46 PM
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#69
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Montana/Texas
Posts: 682
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Crown by Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
Rated Cap: 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
its A 7 window with a GVWR of 27500, ive not weighted it but it drives like a heavy bus.
as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..
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Crazy that mine is 2 windows longer, yet 2000 less in GVW....interesting...
John
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08-20-2020, 05:02 PM
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#70
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Swansboro,NC
Posts: 2,988
Year: 86
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford B700
Engine: 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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thats wierd?
mine is a 9 window 60 passenger from thomas rated at 26000?
it feels like a heavy bus with a low HP motor, heavy in the turns also?
maybe for me a heavier ply tire since i am need to change tires?
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08-20-2020, 05:58 PM
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#71
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbloem1974
Crazy that mine is 2 windows longer, yet 2000 less in GVW....interesting...
John
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My 5 window has a gvwr of 29k.
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08-20-2020, 07:16 PM
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#72
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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that little bus EC has is a tank.. that thing is solid as a rock!
in contrast my 11 window Superior is 26,500.. my 6 window bluebird is 17,500..
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08-21-2020, 12:16 AM
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#73
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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My 11-window Thomas is 17000 (CAT scale) empty (no seats, no buildout, full tank, driver & navigator).
RollsVille ... you can get a Sharpie at Walmart ...
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08-21-2020, 05:47 AM
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#74
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina
then I shall make it so
the cost of F gauges is double
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An EGT gauge is one gauge I won’t cheap out on.. actually I just don’t cheap out on gauges period..
Built enough non stock vehicles to learn the importance of accurate gauges..
Buy an EGT that works first and foremost.. what scale it reads is inisigificant as long as you know where 1200f lands the Needle
Someplace recently I was reading about a water temp gauge with up to 10% error factor.. on a DT466 reading a warm but safe 215 it really could be a liner-seal melting 236..
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08-21-2020, 08:23 AM
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#75
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 508
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native
RollsVille ... you can get a Sharpie at Walmart ...
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That went over my head... what did I miss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
An EGT gauge is one gauge I won’t cheap out on.. actually I just don’t cheap out on gauges period..
Built enough non stock vehicles to learn the importance of accurate gauges..
Buy an EGT that works first and foremost.. what scale it reads is inisigificant as long as you know where 1200f lands the Needle
Someplace recently I was reading about a water temp gauge with up to 10% error factor.. on a DT466 reading a warm but safe 215 it really could be a liner-seal melting 236..
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oh yes I agree... not cheaping out so much as noticed the same company and the same gauge has two different prices for C vs F
and all the C gauges were just less in cost as a whole than F
I thought it was odd, especially when it is the same company and gauge
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08-21-2020, 10:35 PM
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#76
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina
That went over my head... what did I miss?
oh yes I agree... not cheaping out so much as noticed the same company and the same gauge has two different prices for C vs F
and all the C gauges were just less in cost as a whole than F
I thought it was odd, especially when it is the same company and gauge
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Sorry ... I forgot you ain't from around here.
It was a little joke ... a Sharpie is a permanent marker. You could use a Sharpie to mark the farenheit values next to the celsius values on the face of the gauge. Actually, that would work, but like cadillackid said, you just need to know the critical levels anyway.
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08-31-2020, 08:39 PM
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#77
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 16
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: F350 Super Duty
Engine: T444E, 7.3
Rated Cap: 11,000lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Hungry
Looking forward to this one. Should be a good test of what we can accomplish.
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I am very interested. I have a bunch of international school buses with both engines. And I also have a personal project that I'm working on that I would be interested in seeing how your program will work on it. 1995 F350 Super Duty, 7.3 power stroke, AT545 Allison auto. I want to add 140+ horse power to it.
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08-31-2020, 08:44 PM
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#78
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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They likely already have some good tuning for that 95, these guys were pioneers in tuning the 3 box back in the day
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08-31-2020, 08:46 PM
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#79
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 16
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: F350 Super Duty
Engine: T444E, 7.3
Rated Cap: 11,000lbs
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Testers
[QUOTE=Chaos0812;403570]I am very interested. I have a bunch of international school buses with both engines. And I also have a personal project that I'm working on that I would be interested in seeing how your program will work on it. 1995 F350 Super Duty, 7.3 power stroke, AT545 Allison auto. I want to add 140+ horse power to it. The truck weighs 16,000lbs, I pull a 6000lb trailer, I haul a 5500lb tractor on it, and then I load it. So you can see why I'm desperate to tune it.
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08-31-2020, 08:47 PM
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#80
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 16
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Ford
Chassis: F350 Super Duty
Engine: T444E, 7.3
Rated Cap: 11,000lbs
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I was trying to reply to the tester gig
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