Looking for testers - 1998-2004 T444e & DT466

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

What size tires are you running? The 245/70-19.5?

At 611 Rev/Mile, 4.78 gear, and 0.610 O/D, you should be seeing just over 1900 at 65 MPH.

the allison 2000 series prior to 2006 is a 5 speed and has an OD (5th) of 0.74,


the allison MD3060 was 6 speed in all years however in school busses they are shipped with 6 gear disabled.. 5th gear has an OD od 0.75


the allison 1000 series (used in IC BE series and some freightliner FS65s) was 5 speed prior to 2006 and had an OD of 0.71 (5th gear)..


the 6th gear on later allison 2000's is 0.64 for the 2500 PTS (pupil transport) version..


the 6th gear on later allison 1000's is 0.61


the 6th gear on allison MD3060 is 0.65

[cadillackid]

I need to turn the power up on the DEV bus.. now that I have 3 Air conditioners (2 compressors) running it is gutless on the hills even with a MT643.. I just finished a nice road trip in it.. however even in dallas where temp was 104 and heat index was 117 one day i was plenty nice n cool in the driver seat.. painting the roof white would help my situation some on that bus.. my ceiling gets HOT to the touch even with the air conditioning blasting..



unfortunately php cant help with power on that engine since its a mechanical.. I need to weigh that bus.. it drives like a heavy bus..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

What size tires are you running? The 245/70-19.5?

At 611 Rev/Mile, 4.78 gear, and 0.610 O/D, you should be seeing just over 1900 at 65 MPH.

My Tires are 255.70.22.5

I haven't really driven the bus any distances yet to really get an idea on what it actually does.

I've been on the expressway twice... I've been around town a lot now since the swap.

but no sustained trip yet. This is tomorrow 8/21, first one.

I am mostly guessing at the moment that my shift points are where they should be. I've never driven a school bus before, so kinda flying blind.

I drive a Hino lorry for work, it's a inline six and no mountains... Before that in the military I drove straight drive and again no mountains so no worries.


tomorrow I go to a friends place that is 4 hours north in West VA to get some massive free help with a good bit of metal projects.

Turns out my first trip is going to be right through the fancy gap pass, and I have been on it before in cars and our camper van (petrol cars) and she is steep. yikes

So yes I would like to learn a bit more about the trans/engine/shift points and where the sweet spot is. I plan to take some detailed notes and pics of revs and etc.

one question is how low a revs is "too low" and considered "lugging"

I imagine I would "feel it" and be alarmed... but any foresight is great lads

I've looked at the pyrometers and will be ordering and installing when I get back... too late to get before the trip. It's madness that Fahrenheit is twice the price of a Celcius gauge.... you americans lol

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

unfortunately php cant help with power on that engine since its a mechanical.. I need to weigh that bus.. it drives like a heavy bus..

Is the DEV bus 9-window? That's what mine is...empty (before conversion)she weighs around 13-14000 lbs. When I’m loaded with everything and towing Jeep, she weighs around 23,500 (19k bus, 4500lbs Jeep)! GVW is 25,500...

John

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

Is the DEV bus 9-window? That's what mine is...empty (before conversion)she weighs around 13-14000 lbs. When I’m loaded with everything and towing Jeep, she weighs around 23,500 (19k bus, 4500lbs Jeep)! GVW is 25,500...

John

its A 7 window with a GVWR of 27500, ive not weighted it but it drives like a heavy bus.





as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

i




as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..

thanks

am worried about the trip but the prize at the end makes it a must

Bluefire and EGT is in the works, but cannot make it here before the trip so winging it

Going with the one shows EGT in C as is cheaper and looks same gauge

but this gives a good starting point to get my head around it as I start to actually USE the bus vs build it in the yard

thanking you

[cadillackid]

EGT in C there are lots of different gauges.. most are equal.. big thing is locating the probe BEFORE the turbo.. I put mine in the driver side manifold just past the last cylinder. and right before the up-pipe connects..



this is thought to be the hottest place on a T444E

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

EGT in C there are lots of different gauges.. most are equal.. big thing is locating the probe BEFORE the turbo.. I put mine in the driver side manifold just past the last cylinder. and right before the up-pipe connects..



this is thought to be the hottest place on a T444E

then I shall make it so

the cost of F gauges is double

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

its A 7 window with a GVWR of 27500, ive not weighted it but it drives like a heavy bus.





as to rolesville - you can hear a 444E when its laboring.. ultimately if you were watching the computer wit ha bluefire you would see the engine load go to 100% and you can hear it.. when its trying to reach an RPM it cant reach. or is very very slowly speeding up. then its being lugged and needs to go down a gear.. that engine likely somewhere below 1700. I'll watch my EGTs shoot up if I hold the trans gear and crowd it.. my ultimate allison program is to not allow engine 100% for more than a short time at RPMs below that 1800-1900 range..

Crazy that mine is 2 windows longer, yet 2000 less in GVW....interesting...

John

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

thats wierd?
mine is a 9 window 60 passenger from thomas rated at 26000?
it feels like a heavy bus with a low HP motor, heavy in the turns also?
maybe for me a heavier ply tire since i am need to change tires?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

Crazy that mine is 2 windows longer, yet 2000 less in GVW....interesting...

John

My 5 window has a gvwr of 29k.

[cadillackid]

that little bus EC has is a tank.. that thing is solid as a rock!


in contrast my 11 window Superior is 26,500.. my 6 window bluebird is 17,500..

[Native]

My 11-window Thomas is 17000 (CAT scale) empty (no seats, no buildout, full tank, driver & navigator).


RollsVille ... you can get a Sharpie at Walmart ...

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

then I shall make it so

the cost of F gauges is double

An EGT gauge is one gauge I won’t cheap out on.. actually I just don’t cheap out on gauges period..

Built enough non stock vehicles to learn the importance of accurate gauges..

Buy an EGT that works first and foremost.. what scale it reads is inisigificant as long as you know where 1200f lands the Needle
Someplace recently I was reading about a water temp gauge with up to 10% error factor.. on a DT466 reading a warm but safe 215 it really could be a liner-seal melting 236..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Native

RollsVille ... you can get a Sharpie at Walmart ...

That went over my head... what did I miss?

Originally Posted by cadillackid

An EGT gauge is one gauge I won’t cheap out on.. actually I just don’t cheap out on gauges period..

Built enough non stock vehicles to learn the importance of accurate gauges..

Buy an EGT that works first and foremost.. what scale it reads is inisigificant as long as you know where 1200f lands the Needle
Someplace recently I was reading about a water temp gauge with up to 10% error factor.. on a DT466 reading a warm but safe 215 it really could be a liner-seal melting 236..

oh yes I agree... not cheaping out so much as noticed the same company and the same gauge has two different prices for C vs F

and all the C gauges were just less in cost as a whole than F

I thought it was odd, especially when it is the same company and gauge

[Native]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

That went over my head... what did I miss?




oh yes I agree... not cheaping out so much as noticed the same company and the same gauge has two different prices for C vs F

and all the C gauges were just less in cost as a whole than F

I thought it was odd, especially when it is the same company and gauge

Sorry ... I forgot you ain't from around here.


It was a little joke ... a Sharpie is a permanent marker. You could use a Sharpie to mark the farenheit values next to the celsius values on the face of the gauge. Actually, that would work, but like cadillackid said, you just need to know the critical levels anyway.

[Chaos0812]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Looking forward to this one. Should be a good test of what we can accomplish.

I am very interested. I have a bunch of international school buses with both engines. And I also have a personal project that I'm working on that I would be interested in seeing how your program will work on it. 1995 F350 Super Duty, 7.3 power stroke, AT545 Allison auto. I want to add 140+ horse power to it.

[cadillackid]

They likely already have some good tuning for that 95, these guys were pioneers in tuning the 3 box back in the day

[Chaos0812]

[QUOTE=Chaos0812;403570]I am very interested. I have a bunch of international school buses with both engines. And I also have a personal project that I'm working on that I would be interested in seeing how your program will work on it. 1995 F350 Super Duty, 7.3 power stroke, AT545 Allison auto. I want to add 140+ horse power to it. The truck weighs 16,000lbs, I pull a 6000lb trailer, I haul a 5500lb tractor on it, and then I load it. So you can see why I'm desperate to tune it.

[Chaos0812]

I was trying to reply to the tester gig