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Old 09-12-2015, 09:25 PM   #1
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Loose steering - how much is normal?

Two different sources I checked say that the allowable amount of play in the steering is up to 30 degrees or 2 inches. Well, mine's definitely close to that. This bus floats all over the place. I'm curious if other International buses are around this "normal" as well.

I'm not spending $300+ on the Safe-T plus thing somebody recommended. Maybe eventually but for now I can just get used to it. After a 3 hour each way trip on the bus I got used to being wiggly and had to get used to driving my Element again without wiggling the wheel.

Is there any other way for me to tighten it up a bit? Turning the screw in the steering box doesn't seem to help at all; it's already all the way turned in. Maybe there's an adjustment on the thrust bearing?

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Old 09-12-2015, 10:55 PM   #2
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If you watch the steering pitman arm as someone turns the steering
wheel is the arm moving with the wheel or is the play in the gear if
it's internal to the gear and it won't adjust then start looking for
another gear box. They usually go for 250 to 300 used.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:59 AM   #3
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Yup, use two people and find where the slop is in the entire steering system is coming from. It could be more than one part badly worn down there.

Driving it like that will take its toll on your steering tires. Also your and others safety. A wondering bus in oncoming traffic is a wondering missile.

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Old 09-13-2015, 06:34 AM   #4
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As already stated, could be more than one worn component. Steering systems have so many joints and each one may only have a little slop but it all adds up to an unsafe and uncomfortable ride. If you can turn the wheel a little when rolling and the bus doesn't change direction, that's all the slack in those joints, gears and etc. There's also alignment to consider but you can't really worry about that until the system is tight anyways.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:00 AM   #5
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Ditto all the above --- Too many people with "loose" steering just crank down the adjustment screw on the steering box and think that's it. All that will do is accelerate the wear on the gears and everything else unless the rest of the system is tight. Occasionally, those gears will wear faster than the other components, but typically it is a signal that every part is due for maintenance. Good news is that most of the required parts are not expensive.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:25 AM   #6
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Check the air pressure in all of your tires also. Sometims it's a combination of a bunch of little things that make a big problem.
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Old 09-13-2015, 10:42 AM   #7
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Get in front of the bus and eye the toe. I read an awful lot or reviews about the Safe-T plus type things....and passed.
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:33 AM   #8
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I also read good things about the safe-t-plus, I think I will be putting one on my bus, my steering is tight, put every little bit helps for those long drives.
if your not sure what to look for when checking your front end for wear, I suggest take it a truck shop and have it inspected, well worth the cost.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:00 PM   #9
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Steering is for wusses and way overrated. Next you'll say that you want brakes that actually stop.
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:32 PM   #10
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Hey, my brakes stop better than I need them to! I'd gladly trade off a bit of braking power for better steering. Move the brake pedal a teeny bit.... FULL STOP.
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onenationundergoat View Post
Hey, my brakes stop better than I need them to! I'd gladly trade off a bit of braking power for better steering. Move the brake pedal a teeny bit.... FULL STOP.
Don't forget your four-points then
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onenationundergoat View Post
I'm not spending $300+ on the Safe-T plus thing somebody recommended. Maybe eventually but for now I can just get used to it. After a 3 hour each way trip on the bus I got used to being wiggly and had to get used to driving my Element again without wiggling the wheel.
A steering damper wont change the looseness, something is worn out causing what you describe. U joints, gear box, drag link end, tie rod ends, king pins, wheel bearings, and spring bushings can all cause that. Have someone rock the wheel while you crawl over it and check those things for looseness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onenationundergoat View Post
Is there any other way for me to tighten it up a bit? Turning the screw in the steering box doesn't seem to help at all; it's already all the way turned in. Maybe there's an adjustment on the thrust bearing?
I wouldn't have messed with that. That's an old trick that people would do to extend the life but most of the times it would be short lived. The problem with it is there's no real way to see if it's preloaded right with it on the bus, and you can't really base it off of how tight the adjusting screw gets.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:36 PM   #13
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Like I said before, steering is way overrated. Why invest a few hundred dollars for piece of mind when the lives of you, your girlfriend and that precious goat hang in the balance. I found a cheap fix for you that should work just fine. I think it would be strong enough for your bus. It would replace the steering gear box completely so you won't have the potential of leaks.




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Old 09-14-2015, 05:25 PM   #14
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Hardy har har. I spoke to an International dealership today. Mechanic said there's a next to nothing chance that it being worn out would cause a safety issue as long as we were still able to drive it with compensation for the play. He said the whole thing would have to shear off in order to cause anything that would prevent us from being able to control the steering. Dan followed me to town in my car today, and said that the bus wasn't wandering around at all. After I drive it a little bit I don't even really notice the play because I adjust to it without thinking about it. Nothing is loose outside of the gear box, so if we want it fixed then we'd be replacing the gear box. International mechanic recommended just keeping an eye out for a deal on one but not being overly concerned about fixing it ASAP.

(Oh, and also, Crazycal, I'm the gal. Dan doesn't have a forum account. And I don't really do relationships. He's just along for the ride. )
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:27 PM   #15
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International guy also said that newer school buses have LESS play, but all still have some amount and there aren't generally any that are actually tight.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:26 PM   #16
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Well, that International mechanic I don't want him anywhere NEAR my buses then! All my buses are tight on steering, even the ones at work! I'd definitely seek another opinion QUICKLY!!!! In addition I'd find a new steering box as well.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
(Oh, and also, Crazycal, I'm the gal. Dan doesn't have a forum account. And I don't really do relationships. He's just along for the ride. )
I will take note and try to remember.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:57 PM   #18
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Fire that international mechanic.

All buses must have min .5% play in the steering to pass commercial safety inspections here in Alberta. (CVIP)

Stop trying to tell yourself it's ok. Get under there, find out what is wrong, and fix it like you did the engine.

I have faith in you and your friend. You did great with the engine.

Nat
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Old 09-14-2015, 08:12 PM   #19
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It'll definitely be on the to-do list, but we have to be outta here by the weekend and still have a lot to do. Must be in ND by next Friday for work. After the month of work we'll have enough money to replace it.

Why is the allowable limit for running school buses up to 2 inches or 30 degrees?
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onenationundergoat View Post

Why is the allowable limit for running school buses up to 2 inches or 30 degrees?
I suspect this might vary from place to place a bit, but as I posted, Here in Alberta it's .5 of a inch, not a whopping 2 inches.

That is bases on a steering wheel tuning 100 inches from lock to lock.

Nat
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