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06-15-2021, 09:11 PM
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#1
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Almost There
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 81
Year: 2006
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: International VT365
Rated Cap: 71 pass
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Motor issues
I got a 2006 IC CE200, with the VT365 motor in it. Issue with it is that I try to crank it, it’s a no-crank no-start.
Everything else in terms of electrical works just fine and there are no issues. All the fuses checked out fine, all the wiring connections are in the proper place, relays are all connected, but it still will not crank or start. I get two lights in the dashboard, they’re the (P) Service and Trac Ctrl lights. The Wait to start light won’t even come on, nor will the injectors click as they would when it started before.
I’m stumped on what might be wrong with the bus and right now, I’m open to suggestions.
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06-15-2021, 11:53 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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That sounds like a starter interrupt of some kind, possibly the child safety system. Are all your hatches and E-doors closed?
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06-16-2021, 12:08 AM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 785
Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
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School buses have intertwined wiring. There's the wiring for the bus to run, then there's all the "safety" wiring to make sure a driver can't start the bus unless x or y is set, clicked, secured...
Generally, as previously mentioned you have likely either inadvertently set, clicked or un-secured something that keeps the bus from cranking.
This can be something as simple as unscrewing a buzzer from the frame. Ask me how I know.
School buses generally use the frame as the ground. So, when they mount something like a light, buzzer, etc., to the bus, that connection becomes the ground and completes the electrical circuit. This is why people often inadvertently create no-crank situations.
Of course, it could also be something like what happened with me. I had a very well hidden and very small diode lead break and completely disabled my bus.
I think it's more likely the former than the latter.
__________________
Steve
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06-16-2021, 08:24 AM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
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Look up how IC does their interlocks and go from there. That would be the first thing I would check.
I've never driven an IC bus so I have no idea how they do it whether it's grounding to the chassis, door switches or some other way.
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06-16-2021, 09:23 AM
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#5
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Tx.
Posts: 1,955
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying I 365
I got a 2006 IC CE200, with the VT365 motor in it. Issue with it is that I try to crank it, it’s a no-crank no-start.
Everything else in terms of electrical works just fine and there are no issues. All the fuses checked out fine, all the wiring connections are in the proper place, relays are all connected, but it still will not crank or start. I get two lights in the dashboard, they’re the (P) Service and Trac Ctrl lights. The Wait to start light won’t even come on, nor will the injectors click as they would when it started before.
I’m stumped on what might be wrong with the bus and right now, I’m open to suggestions.
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Here is a link for a CE200 chassis electrical service manual.
It is 2.6 mb so I could not upload it here.
http://docs.diesel-data.com/Heavy%20...s%20(2841).pdf
It's for 2007+ busses but hey, it's free and it just might have what you need?
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06-16-2021, 06:50 PM
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#6
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Almost There
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 81
Year: 2006
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: International VT365
Rated Cap: 71 pass
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Much obliged for the help so far
In addition, I looked over the interlocks, all the “safety” items that the bus would have come equipped with (it was originally built in 2005 as a 2006 model) and everything is in place and checked. It doesn’t have a starter interlock like the newer buses do. It just has the buzzer box on the back door and that was even in working order. There was no interlock on the side entry door.
As for the child safety system, it did have one of those child checkmate systems fit in by the company I bought the bus from but it was removed when the bus was decommissioned from service earlier this year, wires remained but it looked like it was installed after the bus was commissioned. And it did have a Zonar box equipped as well, also removed with the connectors too (it was simply plugged in at the engine diagnostic connector)
Don’t know if either of those would make a difference or is it something else.
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06-16-2021, 09:52 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,761
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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if the rear or side door or any emergency exits have a Vandal-lock.. lock designed for locking the doors when you are away from the bus.. all of those locks must be unlocked before the bus will start..
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06-17-2021, 11:40 AM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 785
Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
if the rear or side door or any emergency exits have a Vandal-lock.. lock designed for locking the doors when you are away from the bus.. all of those locks must be unlocked before the bus will start..
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There may also be a rocker switch for your Vandal-lock. There was one on mine.
__________________
Steve
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06-24-2021, 10:41 PM
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#9
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Almost There
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 81
Year: 2006
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: International VT365
Rated Cap: 71 pass
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Well, went through the entire bus body with a fine-toothed comb and couldn’t find any vandal-locks to speak of. So my hunch is that the problem is electrical.
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06-25-2021, 05:57 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Do your emergency exit doors have latches like these that go into gray metal boxes attached to the walls? They should, and if so, they are part of the "starter interlock" system that prevents the bus from being started if they are closed (i.e. if they are locked and preventing the doors from being opened). They are not only found on newer buses - my 2003 had them and older buses did as well.
They can be somewhat finicky. Before I removed mine, I used to have to open and close and re-open the one on my side exit door a few times before the bus would start. The gray box contains a switch that breaks the circuit when the bolt is thrown into it; sometimes this switch sticks and keeps the circuit broken even when the bolt is opened.
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06-25-2021, 06:32 PM
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#11
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Almost There
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 81
Year: 2006
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: CE200
Engine: International VT365
Rated Cap: 71 pass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis
Do your emergency exit doors have latches like these that go into gray metal boxes attached to the walls? They should, and if so, they are part of the "starter interlock" system that prevents the bus from being started if they are closed (i.e. if they are locked and preventing the doors from being opened). They are not only found on newer buses - my 2003 had them and older buses did as well.
They can be somewhat finicky. Before I removed mine, I used to have to open and close and re-open the one on my side exit door a few times before the bus would start. The gray box contains a switch that breaks the circuit when the bolt is thrown into it; sometimes this switch sticks and keeps the circuit broken even when the bolt is opened.
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I took a look at it, and the box you speak of is black and houses the buzzer for the emergency exits (at least on mine). It however does not have the latch as shown in the link. None of the exits do. So I do not believe there is a starter interlock on the bus.
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06-25-2021, 07:01 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying I 365
I took a look at it, and the box you speak of is black and houses the buzzer for the emergency exits (at least on mine). It however does not have the latch as shown in the link. None of the exits do. So I do not believe there is a starter interlock on the bus.
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If you have a test light, probe around in that box while switching the key on and off. If you find a key switch controlled wire... that's the wire that's been redirected through the safety lockout.
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06-26-2021, 09:16 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 785
Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
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This was the cause of my no crank situation....nothing more than a broken diode lead, but it killed the bus in its tracks.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/s...ght-35223.html
__________________
Steve
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