My 2003 International 3000IC DT466 flat nose cut off and won't start

[cadillackid]

if that engine has an intake grid heater DO NOT USE ETHER! some of the 466E's have them, others dont.. grid heaters are very dangerous with ether because the ether can ignite in the intake pipe before it even goes to the cylinders..

[dmattarn]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if that engine has an intake grid heater DO NOT USE ETHER! some of the 466E's have them, others dont.. grid heaters are very dangerous with ether because the ether can ignite in the intake pipe before it even goes to the cylinders..

In diesel tech school we were explicitly told not to use ether to start an engine. If the vehicle has a built in ether injection for cold weather you are supposed to use that. Otherwise the manufacturers state "engine damage or personal injury may occur"

[cadillackid]

ether is hard on any diesel engine, but the old mechanical units with no self-starting aids (glowplugs, grid heaters, etc) are generally OK in cold weather as the ether tends to light off slower as it takes the cylinder more time (and a higher point in the piston stroke) to light it off.. thus you end up with a much more close-to-natural ignition timing..



ether in warm weather or on a somewhat warm engine can result in it lighting off too quick and trying to slam the piston back down into the hole which is how pistons and rods break..



ether also has no lubricating properties.. while this wont hurt for a very short time, repeated shots of ether trying to get an engine to fire up and stay running on its own can rob the rings of lubrication..



I took a different approach to cold weather starting and installed diesel-fired coolant heaters on both diesel busses so I can pre-heat the engine ahead of time when I cant plug them into the cord.



-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by dmattarn

Possible, but right now the starter is not engaging when the key is turned

dont use ether.

Get a multimeter and check the solenoid.

[dmattarn]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

dont use ether.



Get a multimeter and check the solenoid.

He did. There is a brief blip of voltage at the starter but something in the pipeline is cutting it off.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

dont use ether.

Get a multimeter and check the solenoid.

Agree with this 100%

When troubleshooting electrical always start at the power source then walk forward.
So..
1) check batteries and connections, both sides of the cable.
2) check fuses
3) check ignition switch - yes they do go bad!

Here is a you tube video on how to check the ignition stitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig-8AlETrJU

Once you check it for continuity, remove the smaller thinner wires from the starter solenoid, have someone turn the key switch to start and check for 12 volts on those smaller wires.

Be careful not to touch any metal while checking or you will see sparks!

If you do not get 12 volts to those wires then yes there is something preventing it from getting there.

That will be next process top undertake.

Do this first and help us all help you.

On the emergency door switches, when the doors are latched closed the switch should be normally open.

with the door open those switches should close and go to ground interrupting voltage to the ECU.

Start a checklist and note your results. it will help with the flow of troubleshooting.

Let's eliminate a faulty key switch!

[EastCoastCB]

Whenever I've had electrical stuff suddenly stop working its usually one of the two main solenoids in the electrical panel.
Not saying that's what it is here but its easy to make sure they're working.
This is what they look like-

[marceloasherq]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

Check out the black relays at the bottom of the panel. These are what I have on the cowl and one of them is for the ecm. If the same part number are on them then I would swap with another to see if you can get power to the ecm.

Not seeing relays at the bottom of the panel

[marceloasherq]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Whenever I've had electrical stuff suddenly stop working its usually one of the two main solenoids in the electrical panel.
Not saying that's what it is here but its easy to make sure they're working.
This is what they look like-

So how to I check the main solenoids in the electrical panel?

[JackE]

**Disclaimer** I read through this thread a few days ago and thought I posted a reply, but didn't. I only skimmed the newest responses, so if this has already been tried you can ignore my short sighted advice. *****

It seems to me most of us eventually bypass the Vandalock relay due to problem wiring. Why not suggest a bypass in this situation to completely eliminate that problem?

This is just my $.02 worth of advice to eliminate a troublesome system anyway. You can take it and give me the change back if it works. If it doesn't, I'll give you another $.02 to make up for it! Now, I may just be talking out my ear because I don't have a lot of experience with busses, and what I do have is only with my Blue Bird. So take this for what it may or may not be worth, but it worked for me when I had a no crank situation.

Take that Vandalock relay out and look at the pin placement numbers. You will see 30, 85,86,87, and possibly 87a. Place a jumper wire from 30 to 87. This fools the computer into believing all the vandalock components are in the positions they are suppose to be in to initiate the start up process.

If this doesn't make any difference and the relay does have the 87a pin, switch the jumper from 87 to 87a and give it a try. If there is no difference at this point, I guess I would replace the relay and continue on with other diagnostic measures.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by marceloasherq

Not seeing relays at the bottom of the panel

In your post #30, the last picture. I swear that I see 3 relays screwed to the body. One has a white ground wire in its mounting screw. Maybe a 4th relay to the right? Someone let me know what I am really looking at if not relays for the chassis, not the body.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

If it won't crank, have you tried giving the starter a little wake-up call with a hammer?

[dmattarn]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

In your post #30, the last picture. I swear that I see 3 relays screwed to the body. One has a white ground wire in its mounting screw. Maybe a 4th relay to the right? Someone let me know what I am really looking at if not relays for the chassis, not the body.

Those are definitely relays down there. Don't remember what they are for. My 2000 flag nose has them too i believe

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by marceloasherq

So I did a bunch of testing yesterday, mainly with the fuses. A couple seemed melted but gave me a good reading with the multimeter.

Where were these melted fuses located? Fuses in the F26 and F34 positions are not the proper size.

I notice that this has a Child Check-Mate System and I wonder if this is still active? I hear it will act the same as an interlock issue.

[musigenesis]

Something I've wondered about: my bus has an ether start button. I have no intention of ever using it, but what would happen if I accidentally hit the button while driving?

[cadillackid]

on a newer engine like yours the ether start should have a lockout for when the engine is running.. i dont know that for a fact but I liken an ether start button to the yellow air brake knob.. you just dont touch em while you are rollin

[ewo1]

Hey marceloasherq, where are you with getting the bus started back up?

Did you get it figured out yet ???

Lot's of people have tried to help, it sure would nice to let us know if you got it done yet!

In any event, I previously uploaded wiring diagrams for the key switch circuitry.
Did you test the key switch yet and is it ok?

I am re-uploading the wiring diagrams but this time I highlighted the STARTER INTERUP CIRUCUIT.

You'll see that from page 9, the key switch, it is tied to the crank delay relay which is directly tied to the ecm and starter relay which controls the crank motor solenoid.

I am not sure if at the key switch, if the starter interrupt wire delivers a ground or a 12v signal to the time delay crank relay.

Since you posted that when you turn the switch on the dash panel does not do anything, one would think that the ECM is not resetting.
Many have pointed out to checking voltage at the ECM but if you do not get voltage there I would for sure check out the starter interrupt circuit at various point to see what is going on.

Please let us all know what is going on, it is kind of disappointing being kept in the dark!

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Hey marceloasherq, where are you with getting the bus started back up?

Did you get it figured out yet ???


Please let us all know what is going on, it is kind of disappointing being kept in the dark!

He posted yesterday and asked a question. Probably waiting for an answer or a good youtube video.

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

He posted yesterday and asked a question. Probably waiting for an answer or a good youtube video.

Yeah I saw that...

[marceloasherq]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Hey marceloasherq, where are you with getting the bus started back up?

Did you get it figured out yet ???

Lot's of people have tried to help, it sure would nice to let us know if you got it done yet!

In any event, I previously uploaded wiring diagrams for the key switch circuitry.
Did you test the key switch yet and is it ok?

I am re-uploading the wiring diagrams but this time I highlighted the STARTER INTERUP CIRUCUIT.

You'll see that from page 9, the key switch, it is tied to the crank delay relay which is directly tied to the ecm and starter relay which controls the crank motor solenoid.

I am not sure if at the key switch, if the starter interrupt wire delivers a ground or a 12v signal to the time delay crank relay.

Since you posted that when you turn the switch on the dash panel does not do anything, one would think that the ECM is not resetting.
Many have pointed out to checking voltage at the ECM but if you do not get voltage there I would for sure check out the starter interrupt circuit at various point to see what is going on.

Please let us all know what is going on, it is kind of disappointing being kept in the dark!

Hey hey! Life has taken some turns lately and I haven’t had the bandwidth to do anything lately. But finally cleared my plate and about to hop back on this project!

Thank you so much for all the input and patience as I’ve fallen off the map for a while. But I’m back! Appreciate you all immensely!!

I walked out to the bus today to get re-engaged and maybe do some gutting and saw what looks to be a fuse on the ground, just beneath the passenger side headlight.

Any idea where this would go? I’m having difficulty finding where it likely came from.

Figured I should figure this part out before doing anything else just yet.