My 2003 International 3000IC DT466 flat nose cut off and won't start

marceloasherq · 09-08-2020, 05:04 PM

Hi! Two weeks ago I picked up a 30' 2003 International 3000IC with a DT466 and a Allison 3060.

It started right up no problem and we drove it home.

Since then we've not driven it (legal reasons), and only started it here and there.

Today, I turned it on and let it run for a while, but after just a couple minutes it just chugged off. Now it won't start or turn over. All the lights and interior mechanisms come on, but the bus itself doesn't even seem like it's trying to start.

-----

So I am ENTIRELY new to ALL of this, and just diving in. So it only makes sense for something to go wrong right away and initiate the steep learning curve.

My first thought was that it might be a weakening battery ... but to me that doesn't quite make sense since why would a weakening battery cause a currently running bus to just turn off while idling?

I messaged a friend and he said I should change the fuel filters. So far none of my searches have given me any insights on where to find the fuel filters for my bus or how to change them. I did pick up the filters, though.

Someone else mentioned that I might need to bleed the line of air. All I could find so far was pressing the pump until it goes stiff. Once I found the pump, I pushed on it a bunch of times. The resistance didn't really seem to increase but it started squirting fuel from the pump when I press it now. Tried starting it — NOTHING.

Any insights for an extremely new newb would be amazing. Totally in over my head but looking forward to learning how to tread in these waters.

dmattarn · 09-08-2020, 05:13 PM

It takes an extremely large amperage to start the bus, and nit much to run it. A good place to start if you have no lights anywhere is to check the batteries for charge and all connections.

marceloasherq · 09-08-2020, 05:41 PM

The lights turn on. Radio. AC. Just the bus itself won't turn on but probably wouldn't hurt to drop off the battery for a trickle charge.

dmattarn · 09-08-2020, 05:58 PM

Did you possibly open an emergency exit? There are interlocks

marceloasherq · 09-08-2020, 06:04 PM

Hmmm I didn't open any while it was running, it just kinda shut off after a few minutes of idling.

marceloasherq · 09-08-2020, 06:16 PM

Although it is very much behaving similarly to when I’ve tried to start it with the interlock safety engaged.

ewo1 · 09-09-2020, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marceloasherq

Hmmm I didn't open any while it was running, it just kinda shut off after a few minutes of idling.

I remember reading a thread, not sure if was here or the school bus forum where one was talking about a filter screen in or near the primer pump that should be checked and cleaned if clogged. From what I remember if clogged it will cause intermittent shutdown while idling.

On another note, my friends bus, with a dt466 too, stopped running one day while idling and would not restart. turned out the prime pump was shot, leaking. Replace the prime pump and hasn't shut down yet.

dmattarn · 09-09-2020, 10:57 AM

Right now he can't even get it to crank, fuel is the next step down the road

ewo1 · 09-09-2020, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmattarn

Right now he can't even get it to crank, fuel is the next step down the road

Ok, no crank...
Aside from the power connections, he stated that he has an MD3060 tranny. If so, does the led screen on the push pad light up?

If it does not light up, with an "N" when you turn the key, engine will NOT crank or turn over.
I say this because it happened to me.

So check the obvious, clean connections, but next time you turn the key take a look at the push pad for the tranny.

ewo1 · 09-09-2020, 11:22 AM

I found the thread discussing the primer pump screen.

Here is the link for the info.

https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=40195

BamaBus · 09-09-2020, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marceloasherq

... but to me that doesn't quite make sense since why would a weakening battery cause a currently running bus to just turn off while idling?

Get a multimeter and post the voltage of the batteries. May have enough power to turn on some lights but not enough to crank. Could have a bad alternator and loss of voltage to the ECM may shut down the engine. Just one of the many things to check.

marceloasherq · 09-09-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewo1

I remember reading a thread, not sure if was here or the school bus forum where one was talking about a filter screen in or near the primer pump that should be checked and cleaned if clogged. From what I remember if clogged it will cause intermittent shutdown while idling.

On another note, my friends bus, with a dt466 too, stopped running one day while idling and would not restart. turned out the prime pump was shot, leaking. Replace the prime pump and hasn't shut down yet.

I exist in a headspace where auto mechanics seems like a mystical practice I don’t have the genetics to access, but I know that’s just ridiculous.

So yeah as of right now it won’t crank. It had cranked and fires up yesterday and shut off after a few minutes. Currently charging the battery to see for sure if it’s just that — thereby crossing off potential issues.

So when I push my fuel pump it squirts out diesel. It didn’t at first but after a series of pumps it’s started to do that. I saw a YouTube video where that was expressed to be normal. Mine is the shotgun shell looking pump. And that little bicycle tire looking valve is on the side but didn’t seem to express any air when I pushed the inner button.

marceloasherq · 09-09-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewo1

Ok, no crank...
Aside from the power connections, he stated that he has an MD3060 tranny. If so, does the led screen on the push pad light up?

If it does not light up, with an "N" when you turn the key, engine will NOT crank or turn over.
I say this because it happened to me.

So check the obvious, clean connections, but next time you turn the key take a look at the push pad for the tranny.

Push pad lights up as normal (at least as far as my newb eyes can tell).

ewo1 · 09-09-2020, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marceloasherq

Push pad lights up as normal (at least as far as my newb eyes can tell).

well at least that is good news !

Is your bus an RE?
If so, did you check the switch on the black box in the engine compartment?

When I park my bus I tend to move the switch to the "Rear" start position just to slow down or throw off balance anyone trying to start my bus who shouldn't.

I would also check the battery condition, and make sure all connections are clean and tight.

If you have the skill, I would jump the starter at the solenoid to see if it at least spins the engine.
If it does then I would suspect/test the dash key switch. You can also test by doing a rear start too, if your bus is an RE.

Inside that black box somewhere behind the relays you'll find the wiring harness.

A few months back there was another poster here that had a burnt diode that was located in a connector behind these relays.
Those diodes are for controlling or preventing a current back feed on the rear engine switch circuitry.

The original poster on this scenario found a one in a million problem. that being said, if there any anomalies with this circuit/diodes I can see a potential for a start/crank failure.
Probably a very rare situation but a valid one nonetheless.

marceloasherq · 09-09-2020, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewo1

I found the thread discussing the primer pump screen.

Here is the link for the info.

https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=40195

Thanks! I’ll peep this once I rule out battery discharge.

marceloasherq · 09-09-2020, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaBus

Get a multimeter and post the voltage of the batteries. May have enough power to turn on some lights but not enough to crank. Could have a bad alternator and loss of voltage to the ECM may shut down the engine. Just one of the many things to check.

Yeah tested last night and it was at 11.97 volts. Currently on a 12V/15A charge. Will update everyone when I’ve tried that.

I suspect that it COULD be that the interlock system is malfunctioning somehow.

sportyrick · 09-09-2020, 12:49 PM

Sounds like you need a battery, you only have one? That isn't right I would think you should have two. Did you just buy this bus and sale person just put one in it? You have an electronic fuel system and if your voltage gets to low it will shut down.

cadillackid · 09-09-2020, 01:05 PM

OK so i know of no interlock syste, that will shut a running bus down.. there are a couple that once it is shut down will prevernt it from cranking..

I want to get clear cranking vs starting.

cranking would be when you turn the key the starter engages and the engine is tryimng to give it a go..

are you getting silence other than the radio, fans, etc when you turn the key to start? or is the starter motor trying to fire the engine but it wont fire?

does your WARN light come on for a couple seconds when you turn the key to ON

reason I ask is the ECM computer fuses could have popped..

there are a couple of them.. I dont know on the flat nose the exact location of the chassis fuse panel.. nevertheless there will be an ECM, a TRANS, a DIAG and likely a "gauge" fuse.. all of those need to be good before the computer will operate..

-Christopher

marceloasherq · 09-10-2020, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

OK so i know of no interlock syste, that will shut a running bus down.. there are a couple that once it is shut down will prevernt it from cranking..

I want to get clear cranking vs starting.

cranking would be when you turn the key the starter engages and the engine is tryimng to give it a go..

are you getting silence other than the radio, fans, etc when you turn the key to start? or is the starter motor trying to fire the engine but it wont fire?

does your WARN light come on for a couple seconds when you turn the key to ON

reason I ask is the ECM computer fuses could have popped..

there are a couple of them.. I dont know on the flat nose the exact location of the chassis fuse panel.. nevertheless there will be an ECM, a TRANS, a DIAG and likely a "gauge" fuse.. all of those need to be good before the computer will operate..

-Christopher

So even on a full charge the bus won’t crank. All other systems turn on but I don’t believe I’ve seen a WARN light. It’s acting like the interlock system is engaged. No cranking at all.

marceloasherq · 09-10-2020, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyrick

Sounds like you need a battery, you only have one? That isn't right I would think you should have two. Did you just buy this bus and sale person just put one in it? You have an electronic fuel system and if your voltage gets to low it will shut down.

Just one big battery, fully charged.

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