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Old 06-15-2022, 02:09 AM   #1
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Never seen anything like this.

Short description because I took the time to write the whole saga and then the page vanished.



New water pump on a T444. Got the pump from Navistar in February 2022.
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Can you see what is missing?
This part:

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It is where the fan clutch attaches. It is a factory pressed on part and should never separate. Navistar agreed and sent me a new pump.


So whats wrong with this picture?


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If you said, "looks like the pump shaft is missing, or broken." give yourself a pat on the back.


That's right, just 9 miles after installing the new pump the shaft broke sending my fan into the intercooler and tearing up an idler pulley and the serpentine belt.


Ive been turning wrenches since the early 70s and I have never seen the likes of either of these failures much less one right after the other.

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Old 06-15-2022, 09:45 AM   #2
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Damn, that sucks So sorry to hear this.
You think it's poor quality control as a result of the current supply chain / workforce issues?
Any kind of recourse for the parts that were destroyed? I'm assuming the answer is no, but...
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Old 06-15-2022, 10:00 AM   #3
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It may be a sorta common failure. I've seen a couple of navistars that had this happen.
Navistar has had quality control issues long before now. Since like 2001-ish.
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Old 06-15-2022, 02:19 PM   #4
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I'd be seein the stealer and wanting some compensation, obviously the bearings seized up in short order so it was a factory part failure. Press fit too tight usually does that with the bearing overheating because of friction. No matter how much grease that thing had it was on it's way out. Givem hell!
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:40 PM   #5
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It may be a sorta common failure. I've seen a couple of navistars that had this happen.
Navistar has had quality control issues long before now. Since like 2001-ish.
You mean since 2004!
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:43 PM   #6
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You mean since 2004!
He means 2004 1/2 to be precise. Minimum.
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Old 06-15-2022, 07:56 PM   #7
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You mean since 2004!
No- the initial couple years of DT"E" were like 97-98ish. They held up a bit better for whatever reason. The 99-04's are the ones with the most timing cover failures.
Up until the "E" the DT was one of the best there was.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
I'd be seein the stealer and wanting some compensation, obviously the bearings seized up in short order so it was a factory part failure. Press fit too tight usually does that with the bearing overheating because of friction. No matter how much grease that thing had it was on it's way out. Givem hell!
Bearing seize would explain both failures, however it's not what happened. The pump impeller and shaft are free. There is no binding.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:28 PM   #9
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I do think it is a quality control issue. I don't think it is a result of recent supply chain issues. I think it goes to bottom line and bad manufacturing decisions.
As for recourse: It's a sticky wicket at this point. Looks like small claims court. Navistar wants me to give them the failed part so that they can determine if it is a warranty issue, before they refund my original purchase price. Once I give up the part I have no evidence.
Navistar refuses to accept culpability for any damage caused by the failed part.
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Old 06-25-2022, 05:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock-N-Ruth View Post
I do think it is a quality control issue. I don't think it is a result of recent supply chain issues. I think it goes to bottom line and bad manufacturing decisions.
As for recourse: It's a sticky wicket at this point. Looks like small claims court. Navistar wants me to give them the failed part so that they can determine if it is a warranty issue, before they refund my original purchase price. Once I give up the part I have no evidence.
Navistar refuses to accept culpability for any damage caused by the failed part.
I think it would be worth getting a quote from a shop for parts and labor to repair all the damage. I would then have attorney draft a nice letter to Navistar stating how it would be in their best interest to pay for this repair as it will cost much less than the attorneys fees they will pay as a result of the lawsuit you will be filling.

If you have a good local welder or machine shop they may be able to verify the part had metallurgical defects and have the attorney add that information to your letter.

Even though it would not be worth the cost of actually pursuing the lawsuit Navistar may not call your bluff and pay you.

Good luck

Ted
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Old 06-25-2022, 09:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TJones View Post
I think it would be worth getting a quote from a shop for parts and labor to repair all the damage. I would then have attorney draft a nice letter to Navistar stating how it would be in their best interest to pay for this repair as it will cost much less than the attorneys fees they will pay as a result of the lawsuit you will be filling.

If you have a good local welder or machine shop they may be able to verify the part had metallurgical defects and have the attorney add that information to your letter.

Even though it would not be worth the cost of actually pursuing the lawsuit Navistar may not call your bluff and pay you.

Good luck

Ted
yeah...what he said!
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Old 06-29-2022, 04:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
I think it would be worth getting a quote from a shop for parts and labor to repair all the damage. I would then have attorney draft a nice letter to Navistar stating how it would be in their best interest to pay for this repair as it will cost much less than the attorneys fees they will pay as a result of the lawsuit you will be filling.

If you have a good local welder or machine shop they may be able to verify the part had metallurgical defects and have the attorney add that information to your letter.

Even though it would not be worth the cost of actually pursuing the lawsuit Navistar may not call your bluff and pay you.

Good luck

Ted
There's principle and then there is financial reality. This case is not interesting enough for an attorney to take it pro bono, and between the two of us we can barely afford to pay attention.
I am trying to get the motivation up to file a claim in small claims court. The whole fiasco hit us for about 2k.
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Old 06-29-2022, 05:06 PM   #13
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I am trying to get the motivation up to file a claim in small claims court. The whole fiasco hit us for about 2k.
I think there's a pretty descent likelihood that if you did they'd just settle & move on. $2K wouldn't be enough to cover their lawyer's travel costs. But I'm no lawyer
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Old 06-29-2022, 09:20 PM   #14
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are you sure the fan didnt kick in and gyroscope on you? ive seen this failure on a bad fan clutch.. fan engages and the fan gyroscopes and snaps the water pump shaft right off.. gyroscoping can occur if the clutch bearing is going and there is unusual play on the fan clutch.. a balance issue csan do it too.. but would have to be a large balance issue.. something that would be felt in a good vibration...



im assuming theres also no evidence of the impeller contacting the engine or the water pump case?
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Old 06-30-2022, 03:08 PM   #15
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no discoloration of metal so heat or bearing failure was not the issue. my money is on they hardened the shaft too much and made it brittle. get a different brand of pump
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Old 06-30-2022, 03:12 PM   #16
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i got a bad oil pump for a new bronco engine id built. its relief valve was stuck and it kept blowing oil filters apart. they replaced the pump and paid me shop rate to change my own pump. this was the people that made the pump not the parts house i bought it at. thats where you need to file the claim at
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