Oil spitting out of CCV filter normal?

ihopeyoulikedoghair · 05-26-2021, 02:18 AM

So, I've done a lot of searching around for an answer, and I took the bus to a shop where they replaced the filter inside of this canister. If anything, changing the filter seemed to make it worse. Is this normal? I'm worried there's something wrong with the engine that's making it do that, or maybe with the filter system I guess. It seems to run fine, starts right up, sounds fine, does 75mph. But it really seems to leak oil out of that rubber fitting on the CCV filter, it sprays onto the wheel well and drips down onto the hoses and steering and stuff. I just bought the bus and haven't done anything major to it besides taking it to the shop and removing some aftermarket stuff like the camera system and the no child left behind system, which were shoddily tied into the factory electrical.
Thanks for any insight!

Booyah45828 · 05-26-2021, 08:30 AM

Overfilled on oil?

Typically when one is doing that, we'll check the oil level and change the filter. Those systems are often times neglected, so the shop was right on that part. Did they clean it all out before replacing the filter? They can hold a lot of oil residue.

If it still does it afterwards, I'd look into measuring the blowby and compression, maybe the engine is worn out and passing too much compression.

cadillackid · 05-26-2021, 09:08 AM

what Booyah said.. my red bus has one .. the design of it is to eliminate the draft tube which often spits oil and a little smoke out on the ground (or rust-proofs your undercarriage).. these systems take the blow-by gasses and recycle them into the intake for re-burn and attempt to recover the oil back into the engine crankcase..

over-filling the oil in a T444E is very easy to do and is a sure way to make these things leak (ask me how I know).. the oil return tube can clog up if the filter has been neglected for a long time (like your mechanic says).. there also on mine is a gasket on its lid.. that gasket is very sensitive to leaks..

yours looks different than mine.. almost looks like its designed to spit the gasses right out of that relief? id have expected to see a line that goes from the other hose fitting in the back down to a fitting Pre-turbo on your intake.. im not sure this system's brand.. mine is a RACOR brand, maybe need to look up how its supposed to be connected.. something seems off.. or as mentioned if your engine has excessive blow-by it definitely will blow-off to keep crankcase pressure in check.

BamaBus · 05-26-2021, 09:27 AM

It does look modified in some way. A CCV is a closed system and it looks like someone tried to close up an outlet. The check valve on the bottom could be stopped up like CK says. Never seen one, just an opinion.
Do you have a model number on the filter housing?

ihopeyoulikedoghair · 05-26-2021, 10:50 AM

So, I just checked the oil, and it is high... but I'm not sure if I remember it being high when I checked it before buying it. (Sorry, I guess that's not super helpful

)

Looking at that picture from the top, the hose on the upper left goes to the valve cover, the hose on the lower left goes to the air intake just after the air filter, the plastic nipple on the lower left appears to be open, and the little rubber thing that sprays oil is on the bottom right. There is also a hose that comes off of the bottom of the unit and that runs to the oil dipstick tube.

The CCV filter unit seems to be a Donaldson Spiracle SO40020

I had wanted the repair place to check blow-by/compression stuff so I knew what kinda shape the engine was in before I started doing anything to the bus, but they didn't really do that in spite of having it for a month.

The oil and the coolant all look fine, but I'm not sure what to make of it possibly gaining oil. When I got it, it had several coolant leaks (water pump, lower radiator hose flange, and a heater line in the passenger area) but those have all been fixed now. Unfortunately I haven't driven it enough to say if it's still losing coolant or not. I could do an oil change on it, but I would prefer to avoid that if it's toast anyway.

BamaBus · 05-26-2021, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihopeyoulikedoghair

Looking at that picture from the top, the hose on the upper left goes to the valve cover, the hose on the lower left goes to the air intake just after the air filter, the plastic nipple on the lower left appears to be open, and the little rubber thing that sprays oil is on the bottom right. There is also a hose that comes off of the bottom of the unit and that runs to the oil dipstick tube.

Maybe multiple issues causing this? The 'little rubber thing" in some of the Donaldson literature has a barb with a hose that leads to an air restriction gauge. It seems that is not meant to be open, but shouldn't be spitting out oil. Maybe the over-full situation, broken barb plus the drain going to the oil dipstick tube being clogged are all causing this problem. And maybe excessive blow by.

cadillackid · 05-26-2021, 12:41 PM

changing the oil is a first good step.. if you want to be knowledgeable on whether the level chasnged or not you can run the bus for a few minutes before changing the oil , drain it and then save some of the oil from the drain pan (assuming you started wit ha CLEAN drain pan. send away to blackstone labs for an oil analysis kit.. and then you can send them back some of your used oil, they will email you a report which can show excessive fuel, coolant, metals, and the like in the oil.. (if you save some oil in a jar be sure to stir the oil before pouring it into the blackstone kit so you gert a good cross section.

checking and filling the oil on a T444E.. oil is poured into the valve cover so it takes time to make its way down to the pan and show up on the stick. . its easy to over-fill one as you can pour, chreck, still show low, pour more.. and by time all the oil settles.. its over full..

also if it was filled with the bus tilted to the left a little then when its level it will be a little overfull.. and if you then check it parked on a city street which often tilts to the right a little.. it shows really full on the stick.. ..

truly rising oil level.. most often ive seen it be one or more stuck injectors dumping fuel in the oil.. you'll usually have a skip-miss in the engine and make some white smoke when this occurs, but its too early to determine that as any cause... you first need to determine if the oil level in fact is changing.. best way is by changing it.. then check it in the morning after you change it.. and start driving the bus.. if you find the level going up when checking it IN THE SAME parking spot then a problem likely exists

ihopeyoulikedoghair · 05-26-2021, 01:42 PM

It is actually tilted to the right (passenger's side) right now!

I do actually already have a Blackstone kit, was planning on doing that just to see what was what, before the oil spewing issue.

Apologies in advance if anyone can find any literature that makes my confusion below seem silly, I couldn't really find anything...

Every time I look at this filter, I get more confused about how it functions. I popped the cap off the top, there's almost like a well in the top that's full of oily goop. the hose from the valve cover, the would-be barb for the restriction gauge, and that other thing (which looks like some sort of check valve) all connected to that well. Anything that makes it over the well goes down into the inside of the filter, which is a hollow cylinder with a plastic cap on the bottom. Anything that makes it through the filter can now exit through the hose going to the air intake. But the hose running to the oil dipstick tube is also connected to the bottom of this area. So my question is... how does any of this work!? Wouldn't the dipstick tube have the same positive pressure as the valve cover and be pushing air/etc into the system on the clean side of the filter? Where is the oily goop from that well supposed to go? If it doesn't get blown out of that fitting that is missing it's barb, I guess it would eventually come up over the well and dump down into the inside of the filter, which would fill up because it has a plastic cap on the bottom, and the oil would have to somehow pass through that filter to be able to reach the hose connected to the dipstick tube. Sorry, I'm just really at a loss as to how this thing accomplishes anything at all other than becoming an oily mess with no purpose.

Fwiw, there is oily goop in the bottom of the filter, and some in the bottom of the filter housing (on the clean side) but I can't figure out how it got in, I assume either it managed to pass through the filter or the mechanic got it in there while he was changing the filter. I'd lean towards the latter, since I don't see how the filter could pass that oily sludge through it without clogging quickly.

Also, I can't find much about this filter system online, including how to replace that flow restriction gauge, which is nowhere to be seen. (Looks like it may have never been installed? There's also some dried sealant around the fitting like someone may have plugged it with silicone at one point.) I did find secondwindsurplus selling an entire filter system for $199 that comes with a parts kit, but that's a lot of scratch for a little gauge.

Any help understanding this crazy filter would be appreciated! I'll look into doing the oil change.

cadillackid · 05-26-2021, 02:41 PM

looks pretty nasty dirty..

Yes the dipstick tube has the same crankcase pressure as the valve cover.. there is likely a check valve in there to prevent backflow from the dipstick tube.. the crankcase gasses flow from the valve cover.. through the filter.. the filter is designed to slow down and "catch" the oil that is flung in those gasses.. the oil would then drain back into the dipstick tube.. the fluid pressure of the collecting oil will overcome the check valve.. when the engine is turned off the rest of it would slow drizzle back in..

that thing looks pretty sludgey! and nasty...

mine works a little differently as it site on top of my valve cover directly so the oil draining off the filter just goes back in the valve cover.. a little oil still makes it into the air intake esp if I overfill it.. and a little makes it on the ground as the gasket where my RACOR housing sits is going bad.. (I just need to buy a new O-ring gasket)

my "guess" is if the filter or other parts othe system get plugged up, sludged up that the Blow-off valve on the side spits to relieve excess crankcase pressure instead of letting it build up and blow the main seals out of the engine..

that system is NOT integral to the operation of the engine.. you Can delete it and install a regular draft tube.. it was an early attempt at "greenery" in some states and to limit oil loss through the draft tube..

BamaBus · 05-26-2021, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Overfilled on oil?

Did they clean it all out before replacing the filter? They can hold a lot of oil residue.

Apparently not

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihopeyoulikedoghair

Apologies in advance if anyone can find any literature that makes my confusion below seem silly, I couldn't really find anything...

Every time I look at this filter, I get more confused about how it functions.
Any help understanding this crazy filter would be appreciated!

I would not try and replace gauge, just do a better job of closing it up. If that piece unscrews the you may find a plumbing fitting that would plug it. Or an oversized screw?
The check valve to the fill tube maybe missing or clogged.

http://donaldsonoemfiltration.com/li...dfs/053490.pdf
http://donaldsonoemfiltration.com/li...dfs/067719.pdf
https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.c...k%20filter.pdf
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=37499

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

that system is NOT integral to the operation of the engine.. you Can delete it and install a regular draft tube.. it was an early attempt at "greenery" in some states and to limit oil loss through the draft tube..

ihopeyoulikedoghair · 05-26-2021, 05:09 PM

Okay, thanks to the docs BamaBus posted, I did figure out that the oil actually does drain down through the filter somehow. Magic! I also put a #10 machine screw with a couple rubber washers through the hole the oil was spraying out of and that should seal that up. I'll update on what I find when I do the oil change, or if I find anything else crazy.

Thanks for all the help everyone! I'm pretty handy but once we start getting into big diesels and weird filters, I start to get into uncharted territory pretty quickly.

cadillackid · 05-26-2021, 05:44 PM

isnt what you sealed up, the relief valve? what keeps the system from building too much crankcase pressure? maybe that relief is bad.. but what if something else is clogged and it over-pressurizes the crankcase?

I guess you could hope the dipstick blows out of its tube or that whatever is blocking the system blows free thje sludgey blockage and thern all works normal..

ihopeyoulikedoghair · 05-26-2021, 06:13 PM

Nah, the thing I sealed up should have been a barb for a hose connected to a flow restriction gauge, but all of that was missing. The pressure relief valve is that other, larger fitting that isn't connected to anything.

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