Pre-trip check for an Allison?

[Stovebolt]

Sorry if this is an elemental question ... I am an old-school truck driver (my daily driver work truck is an '84 359 Pete with a 13-speed RR) who has never had to deal with big automatics until I bought a 2001 International/AmTran bus ... a week ago .



It has the 5-speed Allison. How do I check the fluid level in the tranny? It seems to be shifting hard.

[cadillackid]

should be a transmission stick accessible from the engine bay doors.. maybe the one on the passenger side of the bus.. start the engine.. shift to D then R then N and check with engine running.. if itsd all still cold you want your fluid line to be on or a little above the full-cold line.. if you are checking it after driving at least 15-20 minutes you want it to be on the full-hot line.. you dont want it way above or way below.. remmeber you check it while the engine is running.. brake set and in N.

[Stovebolt]

Thanks! I'll look harder this time ...

[Stovebolt]

For fluid, will any auto tranny fluid do, or do I need to get something specific?


Thanks again!

[nikitis]

On my 95 3box, the transmission dip stick is on the driver side of the engine bay.

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Stovebolt

For fluid, will any auto tranny fluid do, or do I need to get something specific?


Thanks again!

Allison will say transynd or any syn. trans fluid that meets their spec.

However I stopped by a bluebird dealer a couple months back and we got on the topic of transfluid for my 2001 bus with the 5 speed. They admitted to using regular Dextron III/ MERCON when the buses get older requiring a Trans. Service and the bus becomes a spare/standby bus.

I drive flat highways. Temps never exceed 190F. I am using Dex3/MERCON. I just replace the oil more often. In my opinion I would time out on transynd before I put on the miles.

[cadillackid]

dexron III / Mercon is what the original fluid was spec for most of the older allisons.. ive been told by several *NOT* to use Dexron 6 in any of them..



if doing a fluid change for a bus you are going to drive alot or installing a reman transmission I would use Transynd or other TES-295 compatible fluid...



the main idea behind the synthetic fluids is they are able to better handle an over-temp condition vs regular fluid and they maintain viscosity at both cold and hot temps... allison transmissions use gear type pumps so they are pretty robust.. but ive seen Vein type pumps destroyed by someone starting up a truck (4L60) in super cold weather (minus 20) and driving straight away at higher revs..



if you travel in really hot or really cold (or both) weather its not a bad idea to run transynd...



that said, i got my AT540 in the superior REALLY HOT!! 6 years ago and amazingly didnt ruin it.. i actually boiled fluid out of the vent.. to this day im still running standard dexron III in it...(and its probably the best shifting AT54x ive ever driven).. when I get around to rebuilding it (for peace of mind) ill use Transynd..

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

dexron III / Mercon is what the original fluid was spec for most of the older allisons.. ive been told by several *NOT* to use Dexron 6 in any of them..



if doing a fluid change for a bus you are going to drive alot or installing a reman transmission I would use Transynd or other TES-295 compatible fluid...



the main idea behind the synthetic fluids is they are able to better handle an over-temp condition vs regular fluid and they maintain viscosity at both cold and hot temps... allison transmissions use gear type pumps so they are pretty robust.. but ive seen Vein type pumps destroyed by someone starting up a truck (4L60) in super cold weather (minus 20) and driving straight away at higher revs..



if you travel in really hot or really cold (or both) weather its not a bad idea to run transynd...



that said, i got my AT540 in the superior REALLY HOT!! 6 years ago and amazingly didnt ruin it.. i actually boiled fluid out of the vent.. to this day im still running standard dexron III in it...(and its probably the best shifting AT54x ive ever driven).. when I get around to rebuilding it (for peace of mind) ill use Transynd..

I believe TES295 is obsolete. It's now TES668.

[desrtdog]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if doing a fluid change for a bus you are going to drive alot or installing a reman transmission I would use Transynd or other TES-295 compatible fluid...

So, I looked at the Allison recommendations for a 2500, and they also list TES668 approved...is this just a newer formulation? Also, where can you actually get TES 295 or 668 fluid from? It does not seem to be carried by the mainstream auto parts stores...

[Omnibot2000]

668 is a newer formulation. I live in a small community and I can special order it from the local Shell gas station.

Many manufacturers make the compatable fluid meeting the spec.

Any half decent highway truck shop will carry it as well.

At least where I am, auto parts stores for cars and light trucks are less likely to carry it.

[cadillackid]

ha! i didnt know 295 was now obsolete.. dang i swear its a racket to get people to think they need to completely fliush and change their fluids just to be "compliant" with the standards..

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ha! i didnt know 295 was now obsolete.. dang i swear its a racket to get people to think they need to completely fliush and change their fluids just to be "compliant" with the standards..

We don't flush. Just drain and refill. Never had an issue. Backward compatable.

We use petro-can heavy duty semi-synthetic transmission fluid. Meets the spec for the 295 fluid. Have not checked if it now meets the 668 spec. We change our trans oil every 2000hrs operation. We do not go by calendar time or milage. Never had an issue.

[Flying I 365]

TES-668 was made available in 2021 and is the current standard, that replaced TES-295. I was told its the same stuff as 295, but with more modern lubricity standards and formulation.

My bus ran the Petro Canada Trans fluid that met the TES-295 standard, it was topped off with the newer stuff when I bought the bus. (2006 IC CE200 with Allison 2500PTS) I was told if I did a Trans fluid change, the 295 fluid would need to be drained and flushed out before the TES-668 goes in full.

The TES-668 can be ordered through most auto parts stores or online, as most of the auto parts stores typically deal with cars, not trucks or school buses so they typically wouldnt have the TES-668 fluid on hand. Fleet Pride or any heavy truck place should be able to have it on hand for sale.

[Flying I 365]

Originally Posted by Stovebolt

Thanks! I'll look harder this time ...

And to answer your question on location of the transmission dipstick (in case no one answered that question). Depending on your type of bus (Type C: conventional or Type D: Transit) and what engine is equipped; the dipstick is typically located near the oil dipstick, marked with a red or silver cap. My CE200 had the transmission dipstick marked with a red cap, right next to the oil dipstick on the drivers side. A CE300 with the DT466E had the dipstick in a similar orientation.

(Photo below as an example of a CE200 bus, VT365 engine equipped. Transmission dipstick marked with red cap next to oil dipstick marked in yellow)

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by Flying I 365

TES-668 was made available in 2021 and is the current standard, that replaced TES-295. I was told its the same stuff as 295, but with more modern lubricity standards and formulation.

My bus ran the Petro Canada Trans fluid that met the TES-295 standard, it was topped off with the newer stuff when I bought the bus. (2006 IC CE200 with Allison 2500PTS) I was told if I did a Trans fluid change, the 295 fluid would need to be drained and flushed out before the TES-668 goes in full.

The TES-668 can be ordered through most auto parts stores or online, as most of the auto parts stores typically deal with cars, not trucks or school buses so they typically wouldnt have the TES-668 fluid on hand. Fleet Pride or any heavy truck place should be able to have it on hand for sale.

Hmmmm, just did a quick research on the ptro Canada website. The heavy duty synthetic blend was technically never approved for the 295 spec but is advertised that it is suitable for use in its place. As mentioned. We never had any issues.

I now researched the 668 spec which is called Duradrive 668 and says it's fully backward compatable

Issue now, we have not been using it on our new units.Guess our equipment onboarding has not been updating our parts department. Looks like I have a conversation needed next week with parts.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Omnibot2000

Hmmmm, just did a quick research on the ptro Canada website. The heavy duty synthetic blend was technically never approved for the 295 spec but is advertised that it is suitable for use in its place. As mentioned. We never had any issues.

I now researched the 668 spec which is called Duradrive 668 and says it's fully backward compatable

Issue now, we have not been using it on our new units.Guess our equipment onboarding has not been updating our parts department. Looks like I have a conversation needed next week with parts.

so technically when i replace an in-pan filter i can just refll with the synthetic next to the dino fluid and it wont hurt? thats good to know as ive always gone through the messy procedure of trying to flush out as much old fluid as I could

[Booyah45828]

Most of your napas will carry valvoline maxlife. That will work in place of 295 in a pinch for top up or full service. You can use it for top up on something that requires 668, but 668(and Mobil 1 LV ATF HP) is a much better fluid. Most napas and other parts stores can get gallon jugs and 5 gallon buckets of transynd the next day.

Dex6 is trash and will eat seals and pressure switches in early allisons. I've replaced a bunch of them because gm listed dex6 as backwards compatible and it isn't. Unless the allison had dex6 as the factory fill, don't put dex 6 in it.

668 has better viscosity numbers and additive package then 295. You can't use dex3 in place of 668. You can use dex3 in place of 295, but you go to a shortened service life if you do so. Not a big deal for most IMO.

[Omnibot2000]

When the TEC295 came out we never flushed. We just swapped filters and drain and filled. We consolidated the fleet to one oil. So it was mixed with regular oil dex 3 We just kept the service interval the same without extending it.

From what I read from Petro can is of there product. I cannot say for certain if you can just drain and refill for Castrol for example. I don't want to give that advise.

For Petro Canada products we have a oil rep that we get approval from. If he says we can just drain and refill with no side effects and for example the transmission blows up, Petro-Canada will back the repair of the transmission if we exclusively use their product and we got approval.

With saying all this, I am going to see what petro-can has to say about the 668 Duradrive recommendations for the next oil changes

Found this info online for the Duradrive 668

[Booyah45828]

That's interesting that it's suitable for use for dex3 and 2 but not allison c4.

[Omnibot2000]

I've seen it before with their duratran product as well from other manufactures.

Duratran semi synthetic approved for a new John Deere spec and the Duratran full synthetic was not approved. I don't get it. I asked and the response was at the time it did not meet it.