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10-12-2023, 08:35 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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Replacing maxxforce 7 with DT466
Hi there I got a truck with maxxforce 7 engine and got a great deal on a 2009 DT466 with transmission. The maxxforce 7 was bad and somehow the transmission disappeared along with the engine.
Does anyone have wiring harness schematics for the dt466 and maxxforce 7 what will I have to change out?
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10-13-2023, 10:04 AM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 20,057
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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there is no DT466 in 2009.. it would be called a Maxxforce DT, and honestly not worth the swap.. buy a bus with a pre 07 (which is a DT466)...
you will likely need to do a lot of firewall work, engine mounts are different, driveshaft length is different, likely different shifter cable, TCM.. the transmission wiring harness may be the same if its long enough but on a DT the trans sits quite a bit further back in the chassis than a maxxforce 7..
you'll need a complete new ewngine wiring harness as well as new computers, exhaust, turbo piping... your radiator inlet / outlets are likely different as may also be your turbo intercooler..
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10-13-2023, 06:31 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
there is no DT466 in 2009.. it would be called a Maxxforce DT, and honestly not worth the swap.. buy a bus with a pre 07 (which is a DT466)...
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The parts guy at international called it a DT466, that’s why I bought it.
I got the build sheet finally today and there it’s named a maxxforce DT. So I can’t buy a pre 07 bus, since this is what I got.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
you will likely need to do a lot of firewall work, engine mounts are different, driveshaft length is different, likely different shifter cable, TCM.. the transmission wiring harness may be the same if its long enough but on a DT the trans sits quite a bit further back in the chassis than a maxxforce 7..
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According to international , the mounts are the same.
I do have the shifter cable TCM, transmission wiring harness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
you'll need a complete new ewngine wiring harness as well as new computers, exhaust, turbo piping... your radiator inlet / outlets are likely different as may also be your turbo intercooler..
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I do have the complete engine wiring harness. As a matter of fact, I unbolted the bus box from the firewall , cut the exhaust , cut the frame , unbolted the driveshaft u joints at the transmission flange. Dumped the front axle . Put it on a trailer and went home.
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10-13-2023, 06:54 PM
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#4
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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Sorry that was a double message
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10-14-2023, 03:54 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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I measured the front face of the radiator to the furthest back of the dt engine is 43 1/3”
And the face of the radiator to the inside dog house sound dampening is 45”
The front motor mount is on both frames at the same spot. The rear mount needs to be moved back 8 1/2”
Both radiators are 23” tall from the radiator frame mounting bolts. But one fan shroud is larger. I can see if I can swap them out or use the dt radiator assembly instead
So the engine should physically fit.
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10-14-2023, 03:56 PM
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#6
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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I removed the firewall so I get better measurements of the firewall gone and transmission
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10-14-2023, 11:29 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 761
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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CK is right. You got a maxforce DT. You did not get a DT466.
Same engine but different. The DT466 is considered better.
You certainly have the work cut out for you.
Nothing stopping you from installing the maxforce DT in a pre 07 bus.
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10-15-2023, 12:17 AM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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I don’t have a pre 07 bus. I have a 2014
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10-15-2023, 08:18 AM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 761
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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Cool.
Either way it's doable. Almost anything is better then the maxforce 7.
We have 8 Maxforce 7 buses. Every engine replaced under 100k miles. They are junk.Replacement engines having low oil pressure issues again. We drain the oil and replace. Good for anther 3000kms
We have 2 maxforce DT. 180k miles. Used as spare buses only. To many emission issues.
We have 8 pre and post DPF C7 cat spare buses. Ones with DPF's occasionally needs a laptop to force a Regen. Not getting hot enough on routes to Regen itself.
60 Cummins. Seem good for the most part.Changed about 10 turbos. VGT codes and some DPF issues but they are hitting the 12 year mark.
Rest is 8 propane buses and 8 gas buses. We burn 2000L of propane every 2 days. Gas buses sound cool. Have not paid attention to even see what they get for MPG. Both are Ford engines. Have had zero issues so far. Less then 2 years old though.
Got 2 new buses. Switched back to Cummins.
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10-15-2023, 08:29 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 20,057
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnibot2000
Cool.
Either way it's doable. Almost anything is better then the maxforce 7.
We have 8 Maxforce 7 buses. Every engine replaced under 100k miles. They are junk.Replacement engines having low oil pressure issues again. We drain the oil and replace. Good for anther 3000kms
We have 2 maxforce DT. 180k miles. Used as spare buses only. To many emission issues.
We have 8 pre and post DPF C7 cat spare buses. Ones with DPF's occasionally needs a laptop to force a Regen. Not getting hot enough on routes to Regen itself.
60 Cummins. Seem good for the most part.Changed about 10 turbos. VGT codes and some DPF issues but they are hitting the 12 year mark.
Rest is 8 propane buses and 8 gas buses. We burn 2000L of propane every 2 days. Gas buses sound cool. Have not paid attention to even see what they get for MPG. Both are Ford engines. Have had zero issues so far. Less then 2 years old though.
Got 2 new buses. Switched back to Cummins.
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friends of mine in the business like you are echo very similar results.. one of them runs quite a few gas busses.. they had issues with bluebird vision propane units n the ford 6.8 nreaking pistons.. the godzilla 7.3 appears to be less powerful than the 6.8, and reliability no one knows yet its still too new.. economy wise it seems to suck like the 6.8 did too.. but much simpler and less expensive to work on are the gas busses. even a broken piston in a 6.8 ford resulted in a lot less expensive repair bill than major diesel repairs or emissions issues.. they found that rotating the busses around from shorter to longer routes a few times a year helped greatly reduce DPF and turbo related issues... the drivers hate it as they change busses a few times a year... one local district supposedly has a few EV's i have yet to see one out and about and apparently the pilot project of them isnt going well for the district.. i dont know any details on their issues other than the EV's are not liked (except maybe the school board that touts going green)..the district is a suburb of my city with varying length routes
they had a couple cummins break rods but both were still under wrranty period and replaced.. both of those busses were 2019's bought at the same time.. maybe a bad batch of roda or something.. otherwise their cummins are solid..
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10-15-2023, 08:33 AM
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#11
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnibot2000
Cool.
Either way it's doable. Almost anything is better then the maxforce 7.
We have 8 Maxforce 7 buses. Every engine replaced under 100k miles. They are junk.Replacement engines having low oil pressure issues again. We drain the oil and replace. Good for anther 3000kms
We have 2 maxforce DT. 180k miles. Used as spare buses only. To many emission issues.
We have 8 pre and post DPF C7 cat spare buses. Ones with DPF's occasionally needs a laptop to force a Regen. Not getting hot enough on routes to Regen itself.
60 Cummins. Seem good for the most part.Changed about 10 turbos. VGT codes and some DPF issues but they are hitting the 12 year mark.
Rest is 8 propane buses and 8 gas buses. We burn 2000L of propane every 2 days. Gas buses sound cool. Have not paid attention to even see what they get for MPG. Both are Ford engines. Have had zero issues so far. Less then 2 years old though.
Got 2 new buses. Switched back to Cummins.
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Wow , that’s some cool insight. Thank you for sharing it.
About the maxxforce DT, I thought if I can get that engine to run in there, I can probably change to an older DT later.
The wiring has me a bit freaked out, though .
The rest won’t be a walk in the park, but a lot easier regardless.
But the wiring???
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10-15-2023, 08:42 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Canada
Posts: 761
Year: 2001
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 72
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If your engine bay wiring is not cut just look for the dash side wire harness with cluster. Alot of times you can just unplug and mark what you unplugged. When you have all that it's just power and grounds at that point.
I hate seeing hacked wire harnesses. The time invested fixing and splicing, repinning is most often cheaper to just buy the VIN specific harness you need used from a junk yard..
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10-15-2023, 09:23 AM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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I agree with what you’re saying about splicing wires. The engine side firewall wires are all in one piece, the dash wiring is too. I cut the cab module harness , but kept the wires with the module. So I could mend them if I had to. I cut all the wires to the center dash and to the fuse panel. I had a 5 hour trip back home ahead of me and got really frustrated with the way the progress was going.
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10-27-2023, 03:15 PM
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#14
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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A question about the maxxforce DT
Is this where the oil supply for the aircompressor goes in (S)? And that plug on the bottom is that where the oil drains back into the crank case (D)?
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11-18-2023, 06:47 PM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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So the engine and radiator are in.
The real work will be to get all the electrical stuff to work.
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11-20-2023, 07:19 AM
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#16
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 330
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
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I hate electrical. I’m also colorblind… following along to see how it goes!
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11-25-2023, 11:53 AM
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#17
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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The chassis harness of my 2014 fits onto the chassis to engine harness. And it appears that the color coded wires match with the connector.
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11-25-2023, 11:55 AM
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#18
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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And it appears it matches the connector of the engine side of the MF7 connector.
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11-25-2023, 11:57 AM
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#19
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 30
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I wonder if I should connect my laptop and see if it reads the ECM?
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11-25-2023, 12:13 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,857
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Yes. Laptop. Bluefire?
Have you been able to read the voltage &/or data on both sides? What works & does not work?
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