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Old 04-14-2022, 09:34 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Freedom Field, New Mexico
Posts: 459
Year: 1998
Coachwork: International
Chassis: Amtrans
Engine: 444E
Rated Cap: 84 pas
T444E Drain HPOP reservoir Youtube Myth

I have a couple of buses with the T444E. It's a great engine that has a few myths about it propagating on Youtube. One that is laughable is the HPOP reservoir drain myth.

The way it seems to go is that there is this little known port on top of the HPOP that you can insert a vacuum into and suck out all the old oil that has been sitting in there and boost your performance.

Baloney. You can indeed drain the reservoir, however since the HPOP just takes it's oil from your engine sump supply, it will just fill back up with the same oil it has always been using. The HPOP reservoir is like a teacup sitting in a bowl, sitting in a pot. The oil is pumped from your sump by the low pressure pump and fills the reservoir to overflowing. The overflow just returns to the sump. The HPOP picks up its supply from the reservoir, utilizes it and returns it to the sump.

There is never stale oil sitting in the HPOP reservoir that needs to be cleaned out. The T444 is a well designed engine and the engineers that designed it didn't get their credentials from Warner Brothers. The HPOP reservoir is like a backup sump to prevent the HPOP from running low on oil even if you are cutting a corner on two wheels and all the oil in your sump is up on the side. as if that could happen.

The only time you might want to drain the HPOP reservoir is when you are doing an oil change. That is one place your old oil will sit when you drain the sump. It is not a lot of oil in comparison to the 4.8 Gallons of fresh oil you will add, but if you do drain it, add the amount you remove from the HPOP reservoir to your fresh oil in the sump.

By the way engines with the HPOP system will perform better with clean oil and fresh filters.

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Old 04-15-2022, 02:34 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,848
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
ive never drained my HPOP oil except when I put on a new HPOP.. in theory I suppose you could get a little more oil in your oil change by sucking out the HPOP oil.. but the head rails are still full of oil.. drainign the heads results in air in the system which most anyone knows thats worked on a HEUI engine... air in the HPOP rail can be a royal PITA.. I got lucky on mine when I swapped the injectors to only have rough running for a few miles.. i wouldnt want to drain the heads every oil change..





there was one guy I knew that made some kind of oil attachment that supposedly fit onto the filter housing and you would crank the engine with the IDM disconnected to suck fresh opil in fromt a jug and fill the heads / HPOP.. it was a long time ago..



I change my filter every 3000 and my oil every 6000 with Rotella T4. I swapped my LPOP around 160K just because I had to remove it t ofix a small front seal leak anyway so I put on a Melling M208.. and my HPOP wasd too weak for my tuned engine so it got replaced last summer with an adrenaline and new lines (one of my lines was starting to leak anyway..)..
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:12 AM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 301
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Hey Christopher, how did you diagnose a weak HPOP on your 7.3? I suspect mine is having issues. If my bus sits for more than a few days she becomes difficult to start. However, if I drive her every day or two she fires right up.
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:33 AM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,848
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
in my case when I ran a higher Horsepower mode id watch the delta between my desired ICP and the actual ICP separate.. at lower Power levels i had no issues...



the ICP would max out at 87% duty cycle and id still not get any more HPOP pressure.. if I tried to run a higher tune then the desired would be so much higher id set a code 333 and error out..



I had no issues starting the engine... it was only when I was required higher HPOP demand at heavier throttle..



after the HPOP replacement my IPR duty cycle droipped significantly and it always meets desired. . the starting hasnt changed. if its not plugged in sometimes I'll get a few "surges" right after it starts in real cold weather.. (ie like single digit and below).. but at most it will die once and then I restart it and its fine.



its possible the drainback valve is failing and allowing your HPOP reservoire to drain out when the bus sits.. ive heard of it before.. and that would make it hard to fire up.. you would have long crank times and possibly rough idle after it starts for a minute or so.


the only way to test would be to run servicemaxx and watch the ICP while cranking to see if you have any HPOP pressure or not.
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Old 04-18-2022, 07:06 AM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 301
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Thanks! I have the ServiceMaxx, I think learning about that from reading one of your other numerous posts. The drain back issue sounds very likely. I'll have to do some Googling on how difficult that is to repair. I want easy starts!!

She runs great once I get her started!
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