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11-07-2016, 07:20 PM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 2
Year: 1999
Coachwork: international
Chassis: 3800
Engine: t444e
Rated Cap: 65
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T444E no turbo for the first couple minutes on the road
I thought it was an ambient temperature issue because it would only have issues on days less than 40 degrees. I start the bus, run it for a half hour or take off right away, if I let it run for a half hour, it would take about a mile for the turbo to kick in, the same thing if I start it and take off right away. Well today it was 60+ out, I took off after about 5 minutes of warm up, it took a mile and a half for the turbo to kick in.
When I say the turbo kicking in, I mean it's like it's not getting high rpm power. taking off it's almost normal when I step on the gas, when I get up to 20-25, it sounds like there is a high pressure air leak coming out of the passenger side of the bus while I am stepping on the throttle.
I repeatedly let off the throttle and put it to the floor until I get full power, then it's running correctly for the rest of the day. I had this problem right before a long trip, I went 250 to the sugar beet harvest, 250 back then 1200 miles to my parents.
The only thing I can come up with is a post on google about a turbo boost sensor which would make sense. If it's not getting the right values, it wouldn't put fuel to the turbo. Am I on the right track? I am thinking I can hook up my own boost gauge, see what I'm getting. I don't have a computer to hook up. another question, does anyone have a picture and location of this boost sensor on the t444e? I can see what I'm getting for voltage when it's working and when it's not if I knew what to hook up to.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
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11-07-2016, 08:35 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,968
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
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I'm assuming the T444 turbo is set up the same as the Ford 7.3l.
Have you looked at the turbo connections? Hearing an air leak and low power suggests a leak in the "up pipes" running from the exhaust manifolds to the turbo inlet or possibly bad rubber boots between the turbo and the heads. In the ford version of the engine those connections are known to degrade and leak over time.
Since the problem gets better when the engine warms up I'd guess it's the up pipe donut seals going south. If that's the case get new "bellowed" pipes to fix the problem for good.
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11-07-2016, 08:59 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,751
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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dont some of the T-444E's have a turbo exhaust backpressure valve that operates.. (and loves to malfunction) when the engine is cold? I have yet to see whether my T444e has one or not since it came from Texas.. but ive read bits and pieces online about them and their issues..
-Christopher
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11-07-2016, 09:16 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,968
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
dont some of the T-444E's have a turbo exhaust backpressure valve that operates.. (and loves to malfunction) when the engine is cold? I have yet to see whether my T444e has one or not since it came from Texas.. but ive read bits and pieces online about them and their issues..
-Christopher
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Good catch. That's another possibility. Probably the right one. What sounds like an air leak might actually be that valve closed down. I removed my valve and the oil-leaky pedestal actuator when I rebuilt the turbo.
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11-08-2016, 07:49 AM
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#5
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 2
Year: 1999
Coachwork: international
Chassis: 3800
Engine: t444e
Rated Cap: 65
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Thank you both, it gives me a better direction to go in. I'll let you know which one solved my issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
Good catch. That's another possibility. Probably the right one. What sounds like an air leak might actually be that valve closed down. I removed my valve and the oil-leaky pedestal actuator when I rebuilt the turbo.
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11-08-2016, 09:10 AM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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If those don't turn anything up, check your wastegate also.
Could be sticking open.
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11-08-2016, 09:15 AM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,751
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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where is the wastegate on the T-444E?
-Christopher
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11-08-2016, 09:16 AM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,208
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: 3800 International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 72
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Start by getting a boost gauge then you know for sure what your pressure is, I would get a scan gauge it will give more info as well as codes
gbstewart
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11-08-2016, 09:19 AM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,751
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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if you get a scangauge besure to get the scangauge D, thats the J1708 compatible version.
-Christopher
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11-08-2016, 09:30 AM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
where is the wastegate on the T-444E?
-Christopher
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No idea. I don't have intimate knowledge of that particular engine.
I was just speaking from a general diesel troubleshooting perspective.
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11-08-2016, 10:00 AM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameses
If those don't turn anything up, check your wastegate also.
Could be sticking open.
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The stock Garrett turbo on my T444e doesn't have a waste gate...
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11-08-2016, 10:06 AM
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#12
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Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 206
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My stock T444e turbo does have a wastegate, fitted to the forward side of the turbo.
Perhaps it is year dependent? Mine is 2003.
If you decide to disconnect the back pressure device, be aware that getting the clip off the arm is one of the most difficult irritating jobs possible (if it is anything like my bus). It was really hard to get even one arm into it. I will be securing mine in the open position when my turbo goes back in.
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11-08-2016, 10:07 AM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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You should be able to disconnect the actuator arm for the exhaust back pressure valve (EBPV). It's on the bottom of the exhaust side of the turbo (the rusty part). There is a connector on the turbo pedestal that I think disables the actuator when disconnected. While the engine is cold you should be able start the bus and flip the butterfly valve manually. It'll make more noise when closed than when open. After that try taking it for a cruise while it's open.
This guy tied his permanently open:
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11-08-2016, 10:07 AM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty
The stock Garrett turbo on my T444e doesn't have a waste gate...
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Makes checking to see if it's stuck open pretty easy.
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