T444E Slowly Lost Power, Now No Start. HELP! - Page 3

HazMatt · 06-06-2019, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe69936

I know right how does that happen anyway?

Hard to tell... [emoji6]

Doe69936 · 06-06-2019, 10:14 AM

That's technology

NinjaSchool · 06-18-2019, 09:19 PM

It's fixed!

Here's what we ran through:

1) Checked fuel lines, replaced fuel filter, screen, water in fuel etc.
2) Replaced Cam Position Sensor
3) Replaced Ignition Pressure Regulator
4) Removed valve cover and check wire harnesses (which I was told was a classic culprit for poor performance and can throw the CEL)
5) The winner, replaced the High Pressure Oil Pump

When I finally got the correct code reader hooked up to it, I got code 211 for "oil out of range low" which triggered the CEL. Put the new HPOP in and it now purrs like a kitten.

Contrary to what I was reading, we weren't getting any smoke, no hard start, no bad idling, no low MPG, no oil leaks, all classic symptoms of a failing HPOP. The thing just internally failed and was still "working" but only getting oil up to maybe 100-200 PSI at best.

We're back on the road and just did 700 miles with no issues. Outside of this repair happening in the middle of paint (my bus now looks like swamp thing, half green/half yellow), we're happy to have her back!

follow @velveeta228 on instagram if you want to follow along with us!

Thanks for the help everyone, you guys are great.

joeblack5 · 06-18-2019, 09:29 PM

congrats, great to hear back what the problem was

HazMatt · 06-19-2019, 04:50 AM

Yay!!! Glad to hear that the problem finally got resolved, good on ya!
Ain't troubleshooting a blast?

Johnny Mullet · 06-19-2019, 06:05 AM

A proper scanner will put you on the right path. Glad it's fixed!

HazMatt · 06-19-2019, 06:21 AM

I've got a similar mill, what are your best pick scanner options?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet

A proper scanner will put you on the right path. Glad it's fixed!

Johnny Mullet · 06-19-2019, 10:30 AM

Our shop uses this scanner..........
https://www.nexiq.com/Product/Detail/188001

I would use one of these with my bus.........
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VX2NP4W...v_ov_lig_dp_it

HazMatt · 06-19-2019, 11:45 AM

Thank you for the recommendations! So many options, hard to know which'd be the best fit for my application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet

Our shop uses this scanner..........
https://www.nexiq.com/Product/Detail/188001

I would use one of these with my bus.........
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VX2NP4W...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Don't particularly need it, yet. Rather have & not need, than vice versa! [emoji111]

PatrickBaptist · 09-12-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

its a good idea to have a charger handy when diagnosing issues.. they want you to crank it a decent amount of time to make sure the pump builds and holds poressure... since it is mechanical you will be watching peaks and valleys in your pressure reading as the gauge bobs up and down

cranking for 20 seconds also makes sure the HPOP has had time to fill back up if it drained for some reason.. these engines have 2 oil pumps.. one is the regular Lube oil (your dash gauge pressure).. and the High pressure (HPOP) which is engine oil used as hydraulic fluid to actuate the fuel injectors..

the lube opil pump fills up a reservoire which the HPOP sucks from to build its high pressure oil.. if that reservoire goes empty (ie you ran the engine out of oil).. then the engine fails to run.. cranking 15-20 seconds usually ensures there is oil back in the HPOP reservoire so it would start..

-Christopher

Careful using a charger while trying to start one of these, I've seen Fseries pickups lose a PCMs and IDMs over dirty power from a cheap charger frying it, the electronics can be sensitive. Best to shut the charger off while cranking and turn it back on in between. Your better off using another vehicle running hooked up with jumper cables.
I've worked on alot of 7.3s over the years.

Like Christopher said about the HPOP, he is right, then again he is the man around here!

cadillackid · 09-12-2019, 05:29 PM

never thought about it but my battery charger alwatys shuts off when I start to crank.. then I have to reset it..

good call on turning off the charger as i venture to say most cheap battery chargers are just a rectifier and maybe a filter circuit with a current detector to detect when the battery is charged and an over-current (bad battery or starter crank)..

PatrickBaptist · 09-12-2019, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

never thought about it but my battery charger alwatys shuts off when I start to crank.. then I have to reset it..

good call on turning off the charger as i venture to say most cheap battery chargers are just a rectifier and maybe a filter circuit with a current detector to detect when the battery is charged and an over-current (bad battery or starter crank)..

I use 2 50amp converters to keep my batteries charged and I have a AC relay hooked up to where if I turn the key on it cuts power to the converters/charges because my memory is crap and I sure don't want to replace the electronics on the bus, I've got spare IDMs and PCMs for the powerstrokes but that is useless on the bus.
You know I didn't realize it till today I read one of your posts that the ol mechanical lift pump is on this engine, I had not looked hard enough at it and was ignorant of that LOL. Going to delete that sucker when I do the fuel bowl delete on this thing, I hate that mess. I do that to any powerstroke I own, the fuel bowl is a joke, does at best 10micron filtration, I go for the multi stage spin on frame mounted filters and get down to 2micron filtration which matters ALOT TO ME, I reuse waste oil for fuel.
Replace the mechanical pump with a Epump (which I happen to have another Bosch 44 just laying around with nothing to do.
I also prefer my own flavor of regulated fuel return as opposed to how they dead head it. I run the fuel into the rear of the heads and out the front connect those ports to a regulator and then return to tank. This helps purge air way faster and gives the injectors a better life, I don't mind the cackle they make but it does quieten it down some. I've done several of these. Plus those O rings on the lines going into the head break down and leak, sure mine need replaced as well. I like my engine valley clean, makes them so much easier to work on, especially when it comes to dealing with the blame HPOP.
It's always nice to put in a fuel pressure gauge into the dash too so when a no start happens you will know right from the start if it's a fuel problem or not. Plus I noticed the powersmokes like the 70ish PSI range, but believe it or not they will run as low as 10psi on startup and even if you shut off the fuel pump the injectors provide enough "suck" that they can continue to idle without any fuel pump at all though this will just wear the piss out of them if you let that go on.

cadillackid · 09-12-2019, 05:50 PM

I really need to learn about the E-fuel upgrades for these.. that mechanical pump is often a source of leaks and fuel in the valley on these.. im guessing i could use the E-fuel kit and fuel bowl deletes that the early 94-96 OBS PSD's used.. done right it could clean things up.. im not sure why the regulated returns or why reverse flow in the heads.. does it help for someone using standard diesel fuel? I dont and never will use anything but pump diesel.. which of course id like better than 10u filtration this a good reason for the bowl delete..

your engine is a 2004.. mine is an 00./ when I upgraded to the 04 computer and then turned up the fueling heavier my cackle quieted down by a lot.. I have a new set of injectors to put in... they are still splits but are 15%.. Hopefully it wont tax my HPOP too much to run mild performance split shots..

-Christopher

PatrickBaptist · 09-12-2019, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I really need to learn about the E-fuel upgrades for these.. that mechanical pump is often a source of leaks and fuel in the valley on these.. im guessing i could use the E-fuel kit and fuel bowl deletes that the early 94-96 OBS PSD's used.. done right it could clean things up.. im not sure why the regulated returns or why reverse flow in the heads.. does it help for someone using standard diesel fuel? I dont and never will use anything but pump diesel.. which of course id like better than 10u filtration this a good reason for the bowl delete..

your engine is a 2004.. mine is an 00./ when I upgraded to the 04 computer and then turned up the fueling heavier my cackle quieted down by a lot.. I have a new set of injectors to put in... they are still splits but are 15%.. Hopefully it wont tax my HPOP too much to run mild performance split shots..

-Christopher

Diesel is still oil, that doesn't change anything for you, just what I use for fuel use to be filthy so incase I got in a hurry or didn't get it all filtered out I want the best filtration I can get.
Yeah the bowl and mech pump are big time leak issues, hate em. The fuel bowls after while will get to where it's hard as finding hens teeth to get the cap just right to get it sealed.
"im guessing i could use the E-fuel kit and fuel bowl deletes that the early 94-96 OBS PSD's used" You could, I prefer to fab my own, I like the fuel lines all hidden behind the block with only the return to the regulator showing tucked in a good spot up front for adjustment. There is a regulator in the fuel bowl, if you delete it then you HAVE to have a regulator to replace that.
Don't tell anyone but I like using CAT branded filters hehe. What kills an HPOP is not changing the oil or heat, in my almost half million mile truck, the programming keeps the HPOP turned up full time at 3200PSI.
I always change my oil every 5k miles.
I've got videos and article about doing these fuel mods, I'm not the best teacher but the videos really show you what you are up against, IF you know how to make your own steel lines this is plus, but if not you can use hoses and pushlok fittings. I do have a write up with all the fitting sizes one needs to make it happen.
Regulated return gets the air out, on the fuel bowl there is a return from the regulator but it does nothing about getting the air out of the fuel rail in the head, it always forces air through the injectors which is horrible on them. There is alot of work involved, typically and 2-3 day jobby for me if I stay on it. It's a pain having to pull all the crap off the front of the engine, even worse on these buses... It's always been worth it to me though, especially the empty valley making other repairs easier on down the line.
I always take that time to check GPs and the valve cover gasket harness. If you ever change yours, keep the plugs for the injectors, it's the same plug for your IPR that will cost you about $60 to get a new piggie tail from the dealer. I keep several spares, I always see trucks with the wires frigged up on the IPR plug and just change them out for free.

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