T444E Slowly Lost Power, Now No Start. HELP!

[NinjaSchool]

Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960

Wouldn't think the ECM was in the voltage's path.
Sure hope not, that's prolly a few more amps than it was designed to carrry... 🤞

I wouldn't think so either. No sign of surge anywhere else, no blown fuses, everything else seems ok. Just nervous I could have done something dumb. Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last!

[cadillackid]

if the ECM was completely fried, the starter wouldnt crank. the ECM boots up and enables the "start-enable" relay which if not fired will result in just cloicks when turning the key...



it sure leans to something with the HPOP system.. either electronic or the physical HPOP pump bit the dust.. you've cranked long enough that ifthe HPOP reservoire simply went dry , it wouldve refilled esp with the poil being cooler now..



im assuming you have engine oil? do you happen to notice if the dash oil P gauge moves at all during cranking?



you can try unplugging the ICP sensor and crank it... if the ICP is unoplugged the engine will start with a default IPR position.. (wont run well but will run)..

[NinjaSchool]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if the ECM was completely fried, the starter wouldnt crank. the ECM boots up and enables the "start-enable" relay which if not fired will result in just cloicks when turning the key...



it sure leans to something with the HPOP system.. either electronic or the physical HPOP pump bit the dust.. you've cranked long enough that ifthe HPOP reservoire simply went dry , it wouldve refilled esp with the poil being cooler now..



im assuming you have engine oil? do you happen to notice if the dash oil P gauge moves at all during cranking?



you can try unplugging the ICP sensor and crank it... if the ICP is unoplugged the engine will start with a default IPR position.. (wont run well but will run)..

Reading that on the ECM, so yeah doesn't sound like the culprit. Changed the oil the other day when I did the fuel pump so good on oil. Engine oil pressure pops up so that looks good too.

I pulled the ICP sensor last night and tried to crank, still nothing.

Think i'm getting closer to throwing in the towel and having it towed.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Probably didn't hurt it, however, using the bus' chassis ground like that is probably not a good idea in such a situation. All grounds, after all, eventually feedback through the batteries, and anything else connected to them... Just my $0.02.

[HazMatt]

No, it isn't. But how else to make those welds?
OP admitted to a lapse in disconnecting the batteries. Betcha that won't see a repeat performance!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960

No, it isn't. But how else to make those welds?

If it were me, I would've parked the bus near a utility pole with a grounding rod and clamped onto that if it were doable.

[HazMatt]

Good point, sir!
He would have to remain aware of, and maintain a discrete distance from, any conductors strung over his work area, tho...

[cadillackid]

at this point in time its getting down to needing a scanner to see what the computer is telling you and if you are getting any HPOP pressure during cranking..



I can only assume the cranking sounds even and "normal" and not a wildly pitches as it goes through the compression of each cylinder? ..



since it has fuel pressure we know the timing gears are in fact spinning the cam which drives the fuel pump.

[NinjaSchool]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

at this point in time its getting down to needing a scanner to see what the computer is telling you and if you are getting any HPOP pressure during cranking..



I can only assume the cranking sounds even and "normal" and not a wildly pitches as it goes through the compression of each cylinder? ..



since it has fuel pressure we know the timing gears are in fact spinning the cam which drives the fuel pump.

You must be a mind reader! The cranking sounds a little too "free" and fast, almost like it's not getting enough compression. Maybe something mechanical with the cam or valves?

I had it towed and they're giving it a look in the next day or two. Will let you all know what they come up with. Thanks for the help everyone!

[david.dgeorge07]

Following. Such an interesting mystery. Hope it is a simple fix.

[cadillackid]

the triple 4 definitely cranks fast anyway.. 160 RPM I think. I would expect some smoke if it were low compression and still getting fuel... I also hadnt thought it possibly being the IDM power supply which drives the injectors electrically..



the IDM is part of the ECM on the 97 and newer..

[WARGEAR]

Anytime someone says a motor is “cranking to fast/freely” I always think broken timing chain/belt or gears.

[cowlitzcoach]

This may be too little and too late but I had a problem with an IHC bus with the T444 (I don't remember if it was new enough to be an 'E' model or not).



The bus ran and I drove it like I stole it until I was down to about a half tank of fuel. All of a sudden I was running out of power, so much so that I could barely maintain 35 MPH.


My first thought was fuel filter even though I had changed it before I hit the road. I thought it was possible that since the bus had been retired and had been sitting that all of the jumping up and down while going down the road was stirring up all sorts of yuck and clogging the filter.


I limped to an auto parts store and got a replacement filter. I decided to limp to a fuel station so that I could use the pump at the station to prime the filter.


When I went to take the filler cap off I couldn't turn it. I was finally able to get it off. When I did the tank sucked in about 35 gallons of air.



Come to find out the vent on the cap or the tank was plugged and the pump could suck out of the tank until the vacuum on the tank exceeded the amount of vacuum the pump could exert.



I am just wondering if you happened to take the fuel cap off.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Hold the phone... Would this bus happen to have dual fuel tanks? In my time driving OTR, I had an interesting situation with an Intertrashable Pornstar (International usually makes good trucks, but this model of Pornstar was not one of them).

One problem (of many) centered around the electronic transfer system designed to equalize the fuel tanks. In a nutshell, the truck continually ran dry on the passenger tank, leaving the driver side tank overflowing when the cap was removed. It had done this since new, and no one could figure it out. This truck bit me twice, the second time required a road service call.

One day, I finally happened to look down to check my gauges at just the right moment, and caught the fuel gauge rising from between 1/2 and 3/4, to FULL... BY ITSELF, DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD. WTH?

10 miles later, you guessed it... Passenger tank ran dry again, driver side tank overflowing... Again.

I did a little research and found out that the MaxiPad engine (seasoned truckers called them that because they were a throwaway engine) used in this model of truck was designed to feed the regulator and pumps from the passenger side tank, using the driver side tank as a reserve of sorts. The transfer system was simply there to pump fuel from the left tank to the right tank as the level on the right tank dropped. With me so far?

Apparently, what had happened was the fuel line feeds to the transfer valve had been incorrectly sequenced, causing the system to pump from the passenger tank to the driver tank. Hence, the passenger tank was being drained double-time, and the driver tank was filling up with nowhere to go. On the surface, it appeared the truck was getting 3 miles to the gallon.

Of course maintenance didn't believe me. I mean, what do I know, I'm just a dumb-ss truck driver, right? (Several drivers at this company called the maintenance supervisor 'Crayola' behind his back, insinuating that he liked to play with his coloring books and didn't know sh-t from Shinola). Even the guys at the dealership looked at me like I had sprouted a frog out of my forehead when I told them what the truck was doing, but nodded in understanding when I told them when I suspected.

Anyway, that's the story, and I thought it might be relevant if this bus happens to be equipped with dual fuel tanks, and has perhaps had fuel system service recently.

[Hane]

Did you get this going I have the same drivetrain in my bus and have had some problems but this is a pretty easy engine to work on and diagnose.

[Doe69936]

What's your icp pressure reading

[Doe69936]

What's your icp pressure reading

[HazMatt]

LMAO
You didn't expect you'd get an answer in 3 minutes?!

Originally Posted by Doe69936

What's your icp pressure reading

(I know: dupe post, just playin'!) [emoji111]

[Doe69936]

Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960

LMAO
You didn't you'd get an answer in 3 minutes?!(I know: dupe post, just playin'!) [emoji111]

I know right how does that happen anyway?

[HazMatt]

I have no idea!