Tach and deutsche 9 pin connector not working

[RolesvilleMarina]

Yesterday had a new thing happen.

I fired up the bus for the first time in a few weeks as we are thinking about taking it for a trip this weekend. It's been sitting in the backyard for awhile plugged into shore power. I start it here and there to make sure things are in good shape and never had a problem.

Until yesterday I Noticed two things unusual.

My Tachometer no longer works, and the Bluefire Unit I use for my digital dash didn't come on either.

Today's plan is to start trying to figure out what may have happened.

The Bus starts and runs fine. I see no other electrical weirdness. I was not working on the bus or "doing anything" prior to this event. It just "happened"


It's a 1999 Vista with the 7.3 and I have put in an Allison 2000 transmission


My Gauges DO Sweep, but the Tach Sweeps FOUR TIMES instead of just the once. I am wondering if this is a clue.


So yeah, other than the deutsche 9 pin connector seems to not work (or the Bluefire device is fried?) and the tachometer not working everything else seems to be fine

Any suggestions? I am sure the 4 sweeps of the tach is a clue of some kind

[sportyrick]

It's my understanding that newer electrical wires have insulation made out of soybeans. So if there were no changes that you made then the mice did it. Farmers have trouble with mice eating up the $25,000 wiring harness in their $1,000,000 combines. I buy mouse poison in five gallon buckets and distribute it generously, it would be a shame if they didn't have anything to eat.

[RolesvilleMarina]

It's parked in my back yard

We don't have any mice issues and have dogs and cats as well.

It hasn't sat up for that long.. we are always in and out of it, and I start it regularly.

So I don't think it was mice, and if so I think I would have waay more issues...

I am about to probe the 9 pin for power, it's just to cold out atm. I thought good to post here as well and get the ball rolling in case the 4 sweeps of the tach (odd) is a clue someone else recognizes.



The Bluefire does smell "slightly" and I mean only slightly like the "smoke came out". I am not a novice mechanic having done the transmission swap and I know what that smell is. HOWEVER some leccy stuff has that wee bit of smell naturally... again it is ever so slight and I can't see any thing physical wrong with it. It does not smell badly or obviously burnt up, and I also don't see how it would.

I also have nothing else to plug it into to test that individually.

this one kinda popped up outa nowhere.
Everything was fine, and then it wasn't

[Booyah45828]

For starters those 90's early 2000's international dashes are unreliable straight from the factory.

Is the check engine light functional and the bulb test works? Cadillackid will hopefully respond to this, as I'm not sure if the IH dash in the 90's pulled it's info from the databus. If it did, that dash issue could also be shorting out the databus and causing the bluefire to malfunction. But I would think that would show up as a check engine and check trans light.

If not, your issues might be separate.

Wiring was being eaten by mice long before they switched to soy based insulation. I'm not sure if they actually consume the old stuff, or if they just try and use it for their nests. But you're correct in that the soy based insulation is like a free midnight buffet for them. But I don't think that wiring was used until the late 2000's. They supposedly now have a bitterant or something added to the insulation so that it's not as appealing to the mice, but they'll still eat it if they happen upon it, they just won't smell it and seek it out from across town.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Removed the Blue fire and the gauges function normally

I can find nothing wrong with the bus or anything not working

HOWEVER

probed the Diag port and got an interesting and possibly troublesome reading

With the Bluefire unplugged the dash functions normally, the tachometer is back.

on the 9 pin I am getting

Key off - I get nothing on any pin

Key On -

A to B = 2.4 volts
A - C = No Voltage
A - D = 4 volts

Bluefire smells slightly like the "smoke came out" and I am thinking it did, but how and why and what more damage may have been caused. It's been plugged in over a year and have had no issues with it at all until just now.

If it was a simple fuse I should have no power at all to the diagnostic plug. So what's up with these weird voltages

I am going to check for a fuse first anyway and see.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

For starters those 90's early 2000's international dashes are unreliable straight from the factory.

Is the check engine light functional and the bulb test works? Cadillackid will hopefully respond to this, as I'm not sure if the IH dash in the 90's pulled it's info from the databus. If it did, that dash issue could also be shorting out the databus and causing the bluefire to malfunction. But I would think that would show up as a check engine and check trans light.

If not, your issues might be separate.

Wiring was being eaten by mice long before they switched to soy based insulation. I'm not sure if they actually consume the old stuff, or if they just try and use it for their nests. But you're correct in that the soy based insulation is like a free midnight buffet for them. But I don't think that wiring was used until the late 2000's. They supposedly now have a bitterant or something added to the insulation so that it's not as appealing to the mice, but they'll still eat it if they happen upon it, they just won't smell it and seek it out from across town.

Hi Booyah, been awhile and hope things are well.

yeah check engine does a self check, as does my TCM and apparently passes.

I just posted before seeing this reply.

Bluefire seems to be the issue so far.. am about to hunt down the diag port fuse to check it.

here's to hoping the ECM is ok but I don't see how I could just fry the diag port somehow and not screw up more.

M was saying maybe a lightning strike or power surge on the leccy from shore power but then we agreed we think more would happen than just one device.

The Vista has been absolutely the tits since the transmission swap.. we've hauled the boats, the jeep and had a ton of fun with her.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Sooooo, being old and blind doesn't help lol!

Remember I said I did a custom conversion swap for the A-2000. I had to upgrade my port from 6 pin to 9 pin (swapped plugs with the donor bus)

Seems I put the Diag port 1/4 turn clockwise. So I looked at the diagram, and then promptly tested all the wrong pins 😜 😛

I just figured that out, and my voltages are all good.. everything is good.. the Bluefire just packed in is all.. I will call them next to see what support there is..

the Bus is FINE!

chalk one up for having the manuals!


It seems the Bluefire is sensitive to voltage spikes?

I am unsure how after almost 2 years of good service it just crapped but it seems the case

[cadillackid]

ugh! on the bluefire.. I talked to someone else who had one die not to long ago.. in their case it actually broke their transmission.. it apparently pulled down the J1939 data bus (thank god for the term resistors.. thats what protects the computer against full pull downs).... theirs was a few years old.. one of the first gen units.. not sure if Bluefire helped them out at all... but was same thing unplugged it and off it went bus worked great...





Booyah - from what I can tell the way to tell if an IH dash is communicating vs individual sensors is look at the temperature and oil Pressure gauges.. on the communicating units the TEMP gauges top at 250 or 280 (instead of 230) (210 is dead center) and the oil pressure gauges are 1/4 sweep instead of the full circle gauge..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ugh! on the bluefire.. I talked to someone else who had one die not to long ago.. in their case it actually broke their transmission.. it apparently pulled down the J1939 data bus (thank god for the term resistors.. thats what protects the computer against full pull downs).... theirs was a few years old.. one of the first gen units.. not sure if Bluefire helped them out at all... but was same thing unplugged it and off it went bus worked great...





Booyah - from what I can tell the way to tell if an IH dash is communicating vs individual sensors is look at the temperature and oil Pressure gauges.. on the communicating units the TEMP gauges top at 250 or 280 (instead of 230) (210 is dead center) and the oil pressure gauges are 1/4 sweep instead of the full circle gauge..

Oh geez, so when you say Broke the Transmission you mean it damaged it? Or it wasn't working and then when the Bluefire was unplugged all went back to fine like me?

I don't want to risk "breaking" or damaging things

We contacted Bluefire and it is being sent off for repair. I am unsure what Generation, we bought it in Dec 2021.

When it was plugged in the Tach was funny and did the four sweeps, the other gauges seemed to be doing normal.

the probing of the plug was just my dumb self never realizing I had installed it rotated like that. My "top" is actually at 3:00 position.

So do you think I risk damaging the bus using this thing? I've not heard anything about this on their forums...

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina

So do you think I risk damaging the bus using this thing? I've not heard anything about this on their forums...

I would think damage to other components would come from sources other than their forum. I have never read anything like that. There is risk of damaging the adapter itself if it is powered down at the wrong time. Would it cause your dash to malfunction? I don't know. See their "Getting Started" pdf (around page 16) for more info on how your adapter gets power and the proper way to shut it down.
I have had to have one repaired. Not cheap but a quick turn around.

[cadillackid]

no, the trans wasnt damages, but grounding out a node on the J1939 bus interrupted the communications which triggered a check trans light and no comms error..



the J1939 data bus is protected with the termination resistors.. if you ground down the pull-up voltage you wont destroy it, it just wont talk anymore.. when the bluefire was unplugged everything started working again..



on the Navistar T444E, the datalink from engine to trans is J1939 and the link for the diagnostic port is typically Both the J1708 and J1939 in the 9 pin connector.. if your bluefire was the J1708 version it would only take down the J1708 bus so your trans would work just fine as its on J1939

[incubus]

I looked at a bus conversion years ago, owner used poison to kill mice. They died behind the walls and in crawl spaces. Smelled so so bad and they tried to hide it with tons of fabreeze.Bus never sold,dont use poison