Transmission Options

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

You guys got a link to the unit? It looks like a furrion chill but I don't think they have a 16.5k btu version.

Yeah its a Furrion. Sounds interesting for sure!

[RolesvilleMarina]

we like it.. have had it for a few months now, no issues, and very quiet

cools the bus down pretty well, with the white roof and even driving so far with no AC we have not "died"

I think removing the AT545 removed the majority of noise and heat from the doghouse that makes a Vista so undesirable

[cadillackid]

the T444E at "normal" RPMs is actually not a really loud engine.. I noticved my bus got lots quieter after the trans swap.. I still wouldnt drive with no AC in this summer though..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the T444E at "normal" RPMs is actually not a really loud engine.. I noticved my bus got lots quieter after the trans swap.. I still wouldnt drive with no AC in this summer though..

We haven't had a chance to go anywhere with it... I agree that I don't think I can do a long distance without...


I am looking at Onan gennys on marketplace and hoping to score a deal... then I could run the rooftop as well

but ultimately an engine driven compressor system is in the works

[Newbusguy]

Hello all, I’ve been looking through this thread along with others as I’ve just gotten a Thomas Vista and looking at different options for it.

It has DT466 engine with AT545 transmission. Anyone know what other transmissions I could upgrade to?

I’m really inexperienced with mechanics, busses, cars etc. so please forgive my ignorance here, I’m trying to gather as much info as possible, and this thread has been a big help so far.

Thanks all!

[RolesvilleMarina]

I am unfamiliar with what will mate up to a DT466

I do hear they are the more preferred engine over my 7.3

hopefully one of the guru's that helped me get started on my adventure will chime in on what fits and what does not

that's where you start

[cadillackid]

the nost common transmissions (automatic) that you would mate to it would be an MT-643 (simialr to an AT545 only has lockup and is beefier) or an A2000 which is an overdrive unit with lockup..



obviously electronics are to be considered if mating an A2000 as it requires them..



if you are feeling adventuorus you can explote converting to a Stick shift and using a spicer 5 speed (no overdrive) or possibly a 7 speed (over drive models were available)..



all trans conversions require work and parts finding..

[Newbusguy]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the nost common transmissions (automatic) that you would mate to it would be an MT-643 (simialr to an AT545 only has lockup and is beefier) or an A2000 which is an overdrive unit with lockup..



obviously electronics are to be considered if mating an A2000 as it requires them..



if you are feeling adventuorus you can explote converting to a Stick shift and using a spicer 5 speed (no overdrive) or possibly a 7 speed (over drive models were available)..



all trans conversions require work and parts finding..

Thanks, that’s great

Whew, one adventure at a time for this kid. I’ll stick to automatic I believe. So looking at MT-643 or A2000. And I know Rolesville mentioned he just got another bus and did a transmission swap. Is there another way to go about getting a transmission other than just google searching “a2000 transmission near me”? 😂

[cadillackid]

an MT-643 swap is probably the most straightforward.. LKQ in marshfield missouri as of a week ago still had a few remanufactured MT-643s for around $650.. theres work involved in the actual swap , are you wanting to have a shop do it?


the A2000 requires electronics to work... rolesville bought a bus with exactly the same engine as his but with the desired transmission and moved it all over, electronics , wiring, engine computer and all.. ..



I did an allison 1000 swap into my red bus and did it where I sourced all my own parts and did my own computer programming... my integration probably works a little more refined than rolesville's and i have 6 gears instead of 5 but it required a LOT more work and more $$.. the main advantage being that I have a pretty heavily built up transmission designed to handle the HotRodding of the engine that im doiing to that bus.. my needs and wants were different...



-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Newbusguy

Thanks, that’s great

Whew, one adventure at a time for this kid. I’ll stick to automatic I believe. So looking at MT-643 or A2000. And I know Rolesville mentioned he just got another bus and did a transmission swap. Is there another way to go about getting a transmission other than just google searching “a2000 transmission near me”? 😂

the a2000 isn't a hard transmission to find. But you'll need the wiring harness. That's a bit tougher.

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

an MT-643 swap is probably the most straightforward.. LKQ in marshfield missouri as of a week ago still had a few remanufactured MT-643s for around $650.. theres work involved in the actual swap , are you wanting to have a shop do it?


the A2000 requires electronics to work... rolesville bought a bus with exactly the same engine as his but with the desired transmission and moved it all over, electronics , wiring, engine computer and all.. ..



I did an allison 1000 swap into my red bus and did it where I sourced all my own parts and did my own computer programming... my integration probably works a little more refined than rolesville's and i have 6 gears instead of 5 but it required a LOT more work and more $$.. the main advantage being that I have a pretty heavily built up transmission designed to handle the HotRodding of the engine that im doiing to that bus.. my needs and wants were different...



-Christopher

100% agree with Chris, and it was his Redbyrd thread that was the inspiration. However as he states I indeed "cheated" as I do not have his programming skills Nor his funds


I looked for the simplest solution. But it was one thing that Chris pointed out to me was the key to the puzzle in the beginning... He said "98 or newer it will have a 3 pin J1939 connector capped off under the hood .. its a 3 pin connector up next to the computer on the passenger side. and has a yellow / green/ and black wire.. this is necessary for an A2000 to operate ..." My bus had this.


On page #2 of this thread we discussed my "mechanical" options and it seems that for an MT643 I needed a "ring" that was all but impossible to get due to my bellhousing size. Again on a DT466 I am unsure, maybe that bolts right up?

In the end knowing I did not have anything to loses I started to look for buses with the same motor, and the desired transmission.

BUT!! This is where it got weird. As you read I DID NOT have to worry about all the connections on the trans for the TCM... My Allison 2000 came with adapters since the donor bus I bought came off the line with an AT545 harness, but they put in the A-2000 instead (or later?)

So it was almost like a "kit" to upgrade an AT545 bus to an A-2000. It really wasn't as "custom" as Chris's at all, not even close. But again, I got lucky, I had no idea these things existed.

So the transmission end I did not have to figure out anything. I did have a few challenges with the Range inhibit and Economy mode connections behind the dash and also had some challenges figuring out the check trans light. But in the end the only programming required was IH dealer re-set my TCM to know I had the lower axle ratio than the donor.

I did swap the TCM's as well.
It was all pretty damn near plug and play, KINDA


Again I did a LOT of careful research, and I also got a bit lucky.

So if you want to attempt to go my route then you would be looking an identical motor but the A-2000.. You would need to get familiar with the 4 plugs on the AT545 and when you look at the A-2000 are there adapters or are the plugs "small" I can post pics Sunday when I get back home of said adapters to look out for.

so the same advice I was given would apply - " Need trans, TCM, harness, cooler lines, TCM mounting bracket, and anything else you can get. A2000 is 3/4 inch longer than 545 so you may need to shorten driveshaft "

I did not have to shorten driveshafts...

HOWEVER your computer and motor is different so I have no idea.

Research heavy.... ask lots of dumb questions... FB groups also helped me...as well as calls to dealership and buying them lunch, being friendly lol... etc

Chris I still hope you swing through one day so I can see yours, and vice versa. We have finally moved back into the house since the fire.

[EastCoastCB]

643 bolts to a DT466.

[cadillackid]

the MT643 to a DT466 / 466E is actually not bad mechanically.. back in the day the DT466 wasnet sold with an AT540 series trans.. so the engine was designed to run with a MT643.. adapters were created later when low-torque version of the 466 were developed so it could run the less expensive AT540 series..



and later the 466E was sold in a low HP / torque variant and adapters made to accept an AT540 series...



upgrading to an MT643 means removing a couple adapters that exist on the engine and using a new flexplate (still readily availabe for the 466E (12 bolt hub)... you wont need a special ring like is required for the T444E.



its the easier swap of the 2 (A2000 or MT643).. you get a great lockup trans but wont gain any in top speed as its still a 1:1: ratio.


-Christopher

[RolesvilleMarina]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the MT643 to a DT466 / 466E is actually not bad mechanically.. back in the day the DT466 wasnet sold with an AT540 series trans.. so the engine was designed to run with a MT643.. adapters were created later when low-torque version of the 466 were developed so it could run the less expensive AT540 series..



and later the 466E was sold in a low HP / torque variant and adapters made to accept an AT540 series...



upgrading to an MT643 means removing a couple adapters that exist on the engine and using a new flexplate (still readily availabe for the 466E (12 bolt hub)... you wont need a special ring like is required for the T444E.



its the easier swap of the 2 (A2000 or MT643).. you get a great lockup trans but wont gain any in top speed as its still a 1:1: ratio.


-Christopher

Def listen to this guy ^^^ I was you in Oct of 2019. I still don't know much about buses except mine.


If the MT643 had been an easy swap for mine I surely would have gone that route. In my case it was that "Ring" was impossible to get forced me down the dark ally of bastardizing a pair o buses and hoping for the best.

It sounds as if because you have a 466 you can do this much easier, and cheaper with an MT643.

So If you choose to go the 643 route at that point if you go back to the beginnings of this thread you can re-hash the information given to me by the experts about increasing cruising speed while trying to reduce revs, including tire sizing and rear end swaps.

I ended up with a pretty fast bus... but in the end had I just had the MT643 I would have likely gone a bit taller in the rear end and been satisfied... I wanted a comfortable cruising speed of around 60mph (not uphill of course) and lower the revs as much as I could and was proper for the T444E to run at.

Another thing to note I learned from Christ and Eastcoast and others here was AFTER I put the At545 in the donor bus I had to put in all new fluid. I quickly learned that as they were telling me Pre-swap that fluid condition in an AT545 IS EVERYTHING..

When I drove home the vista it slipped A LOT, but I was new and didn't know what to expect. It did 55 mph at 2500 rpm. I had the gov unlocked and I got 57 at 2500 RPM thought it was all just the trans. Had I re-filled and flushed her out I imagine I might've pulled around 60mph at maybe 2300. But I never tried it in the vista.. I just went tits deep and for broke.

But after the swap with new fluid the donor bus had some get up and go, and was doing about 58 mph at 2400 rpm (had 6.something rear too, so was impressive) but it was still a turd.

However the difference in the new fluid and thicker viscosity was AMAZING and NOTICEABLE. so anyone with an AT545 following along listen to the elders here been saying MONITOR AND CHANGE YOUR TRANS FLUID OFTEN.


If you want to Hijack my thread and just keep it going since you have a Vista and are thinking about a trans swap go for it. Since it is a Vista I don't mind making the knowledge shareable or easier to find. I once asked an admin to re-title this thread to something more appropriate to what it contains...

Am looking forward to the progress and glad to assist as I can

[Newbusguy]

Man you guys are legends. This is like a foreign language to me, but I think I’m following along somewhat. I’m going to go back through and re-read a lot of the beginning of this thread and I met a guy near where I live whose brain I will pick. I’ll continue to post in and out with questions and such as I go along.

Thank you all ����

[RolesvilleMarina]

I should point out that yes... read and re-read, and ask and re-ask

it will eventually come to you.. I am a decent with a wrench, but this was all new to me. And I did all the work solo.

slow and steady... if you do change to the MT643 you will really like the results

[cadillackid]

the big thing when working with transmissiions is safety and tools.. they weight alot.. the At545 and Allison 2000 are around 350 lbs.. the MT643 is around 700, if you are lucky enough your bus sits on 11R22.5 tires, you'll have really good clearance underneath to work, being on blacktop or concrete is a near must if you plan to use transmission jacks on wheels..


my set of battery operated (dewalt 20 volt) impact guns were invaluable.. as well as little U-joints, extensions.. my 10,000 lb ratchet straps came in handy to help lift the trans.. as well as pull the back forward on its wheels when I needed (ratchet straps can be a makeshift winch).


im a little guy which means I can fit my body into places others cant.. however it also means i have no weight or mass to put behind tools or objects.. thus you get creative with how to use tools.. (and may also become a tool geek like me that owns chests full of various items)
-Christopher

[RolesvilleMarina]

Holy ****! 700 lbs

I had no idea at all, and so for sure be careful.

I wished I had blacktop. My shop is gravel/grass in the country. I used old plywood, drilled holes in the tops and looped a rope, and then used them as sleds to drag them out from under the bus. My neighbor then used his little riding mower to drag the sleds across to the appropriate buses for the re-install.

On the vista you take the dog house off and put out of the way and the trans is right there.. I laid a stout piece of round stock (steel tube) across, and used the ratchet straps to lower the trans to the ground.

Chris is spot on as the 10,000 lb ratchet strap is likely the most vital tool of the lot. Could not have done it without, but I also had to use a transmission jack (Harbor Freight). I use the jack for the slip in/out parts of the install.. Not a strap alone, to be clear you need proper jack too. The straps were used for lowering it to the ground, and then to winch the "sled" straight back towards the rear wheels, and then out the port side behind the last battery/storage box.

and at 700lbs ensure your rating is in the safety range I nae think the one I used would work for an MT643

I had to make a special wrench to get my converter bolts off the flexplate. The little access port was worthless in my vista as the flywheel didn't have the holes. I cut a 15mm socket in half and welded it to a piece of flat style and removed the bolts from underneath where the flywheel tooth inspection port is.

Chris's bus and my donor bus the little access port and a 15mm socket with an extension and you are good. So on your DT466 you'll have to report back. But again on my setup the flywheel blocked the bolts so it was worthless.


I am correct that you have already purchased this bus? Or are looking at it?

If you already bought it then I would start for sure with simply draining and re-filling the trans with new fluid... pull the bumper off (4 bolts and a friend to help hold and lower it to ground) pull the cooling lines and drain the cooler as well...


Then see how you do on the highway. Report back with RPM and Top speed.
Also unsure if you have a 55mph "lock" per state law like us. If so get it removed. Fresh Fluid will do wonders in these AT545's. So start there.

Also call the IH dealer near you and give them the Vin# and ask what is your rear axle ratio. If they are REALLY NICE they will print out the Vin sheet and you can pick it up... the lady at ours did this so I have the full report. lot of info there.

Read Chris's Redbyrd Thread, Then read mine again... (actually I would always recommend his first as he goes more into detail about how and way, and writes better than I..)

here is a link to it. https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/t...ion-18188.html

Without this thread I never would have known, nor even attempted a stunt like I pulled here. Never would've happened without his thread, AND the help of the community here and on FB. So start reading.

Go to Imgur and set up a free account.... this is how you can post (ok, link) your photos into threads here.

cheers lad and good luck

P.S. I am also a small bloke with little weight or power, and a bad wrist from an old accident that I must be of care when doing heavy things..

[cadillackid]

I usedthe harbor freight 800 lb trans jack.. i just made sure i was never between the transmission and any fall pattern.. the ratchet straps helped me pull it forward.. i also had 2 of the thinner 800 lb straps holding the trans onto the pad of the jack so I could use the tilt function of it to guide it in...


extra long bolts with the heads ground off were screwed into several of the bellhousing mounting holes.. these became guide dowels for me to guide the trans in.. I could feel the resistance increase as I pulled it in.. so I knew I wasnt quite lined up.. adjust and pull some more.. never putting enough pressure on those bolts to break them.. once the trans was nearly in .. I was able to start and install the other bell bolts.. remove my long ones as they were now under no pressure.. tighten her down and get the jack outta there..



since the busses arent my main means of transportation and I dont live in them i could take lots of time to do the trans swaps..

[RolesvilleMarina]

Here is the Speed Calculator that I initially used to play around with gearing options when I was thinking about keeping the AT545

SPEED CALCULATOR



And as I was re-reading my thread this morning with coffee I found this little gem that Chris had written made me laugh a bit.

"shifter - the shift pattern on an AT545 is identical to a 1000 / 2000. I still have an AT545 shifter on my dash and it works perfectly.. the geometry and gates are the same.. only difference is the label that says RND321 or RND421 or RN(D)D21."

I am unsure why or how, but at the end of my swap both the shifters in the bus became "Upside Down". To fix it I would have had to Fab new brackets to hold the shift cable the other direction down below. This actually caused mad no start frustration later as when I thought I was in Nuetral I was actually in 2

So currently my shift pattern is (from bottom up) RND421. So in the cab my control shifts like a boat... Drive is forward, Reverse is backwards.