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Old 07-21-2021, 05:15 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Aylett,VA
Posts: 46
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: S-1800
Engine: NAVSTAR DT 466
Rated Cap: 49
Transmission removed now bus no start

Hi AllStars,

From a couple posts ago yíall said itís ok to run the dt466 without transmission low speed, short duration. I went to start today, and all I got was a healthy click from the solenoid by my left elbow. Thereís no indication that the starter is engaged at all. I did tighten starter after transmission removal, and hadnít disconnected it.
I took remedial action and hit the starter with a soft sledge, and ran jumper cable from the transmission ground to the bell housing. Then was out of ideas, and thinking about beer.
Itís in neutral. Foot on brake.

Do either of the sensors need voltage to allow the starter to engage? Something else?

As always, all suggestions and ideas greatly appreciated.

Doug

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Old 07-21-2021, 05:44 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
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Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Is there a transmission position sensor?
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:50 PM   #3
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Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 443
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
taking your transmission out removes your neutral start system, you should be able to jump the solenoid and get it to start.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:24 PM   #4
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Join Date: May 2018
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Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
no crank...mechanical dt466

1) make sure the batteries are around 12.3 volts or more...12.6-12.7 would indicate fully charged battery

2) good ground connection to the engine block,dont think jumper cable is gonna be enough

3) good ground to the body - the starter solenoids are probably grounded to the body/chassis though I have seen one where the body of the solenoid was grounded to a bus bar

4)when you turn the key to the start position batteries should stay above 10 volts I really like to see 10.5 v when cranking

go from there

william
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:51 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 61
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
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Transmission removed I'm with TRANSMISSION POSITION SENSOR signal isn't present so power is not sent to the starter.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:24 AM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
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As others have said, with the transmission removed, and no steps to address the neutral start switch, the bus won't start with the key.

Either jump the starter solenoid with the key on, or install a jumper wire into the connector for the neutral start switch.

With an at545 or mt643, it will be a 2 wire connector that was located up and behind of the shifter on the transmission. It should be pretty easy to find.
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Old 07-22-2021, 09:13 AM   #7
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the neutral safety on that should be 2 single pin round barrell connectors. if you plug those together that bypasses the neutral safety and lets the engine start.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:33 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Aylett,VA
Posts: 46
Year: 1988
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Chassis: S-1800
Engine: NAVSTAR DT 466
Rated Cap: 49
Again, you guys come through in a pinch. I’ve got appointments today, but will get on all this today or tomorrow. I’m moving the bus Tuesday and it’ll be such a big help to have, you know.....steering and brakes.
Thank you. I may learn enough to be able to help others on here some day.
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Old 07-23-2021, 08:07 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeDespot View Post
Again, you guys come through in a pinch. Iíve got appointments today, but will get on all this today or tomorrow. Iím moving the bus Tuesday and itíll be such a big help to have, you know.....steering and brakes.
Thank you. I may learn enough to be able to help others on here some day.

Moving how far? Around in a field or onto a public roadway?
I hope not on public roads unless it's being towed with a commercial tow truck set up for such things in which case a running engine isn't needed.
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Old 07-24-2021, 05:40 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Aylett,VA
Posts: 46
Year: 1988
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Chassis: S-1800
Engine: NAVSTAR DT 466
Rated Cap: 49
Got er running

I dabble in repairing guitar amps, so have some little jumpers around. Just jumped the male and female connectors on the two wires going to the sensors going to the transmission, and she fired right up.
Tow truck is coming for the big move ( all 7.7 miles ) next week, but itíll be nice to have power steering and brakes for positioning it here and there in the yard. Itís really hard to get it moved around without power steering and brakes, and yíall know.
I got evicted from the campground Iíve been in for 8 months because the owner told me some customers donít want to be near ďthat old blue busĒ. I told her she doesnít want people in their fancy rigs if theyíre upset by my bus. Theyíll just complain about something else. But Iím going to a friends private yard, so itíll be better anyway, and cheaper.
And, the owner and all her minions at the campground just came down with covid. Justice? karma?
Anyway, avoid Blue Sky campground if your in Mtn View AR. Not Skokie folk.

Maybe itís me, maybe my old dogs.
Couldnít be my bus?

Anyway,thanks again for the help. Next- transmission upgrade!
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:38 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
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Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Unhappy Transmission

What cha gonna do? There is 653. And a couple of 643 around. Might be a manual trans or two also.

William
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Old Yesterday, 04:02 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Aylett,VA
Posts: 46
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: S-1800
Engine: NAVSTAR DT 466
Rated Cap: 49
I’m going to avoid manuals just to reduce machining. I’m looking for land, and hope to buy some soon but will still want the bus for local travel and eventually to take OT touring National Parks and wilderness areas. Thus want to avoid another 545..
I haven’t heard of the 643 or 653, or did and forgot. Once I’m moved I’ll do the research and find the closest locking trans that has even a short warranty. 1986 bus so I’m not going with something with electronics.
Fall off that bridge when I get to it. This week is the move, and of course it’s gonna be 97 degrees.
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,197
Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
There are no easily fitting allison overdrive transmissions that are overdrive . Going to a 643 gives you lockup but still 1:1 top ratio like the 545. A 663 gives you a granny gear and then 4 normal gears but again top gear is 1:1

They are beasts of transmissions and very durable plus with lockup you make much less heat and the bus will pull harder in 3rd and 4th . I already have decent Highway gears in my dev bus so the switch to 643 from 545 was lateral in speed but the lockup makes the bus drive a bunch nicer . I also like the firm solid shifts a 643 has. You know when it shifts !
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 943
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
653 allison transmission

This is like a 643 and has one lower gear. It is a five speed mechanical transmission. the 643 and 653 both are one to one drive in top gear. Lock up on the upper gears like the 643. LKQ still has some of the rebuilt 643 last time I checked.

william
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Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,197
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
really happy with my LKQ reman 643.. no issues 2 years in on it now
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Old Today, 08:47 AM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
This is like a 643 and has one lower gear. It is a five speed mechanical transmission. the 643 and 653 both are one to one drive in top gear. Lock up on the upper gears like the 643. LKQ still has some of the rebuilt 643 last time I checked.

william
They had quite a few as of a month ago. Getting one freighted to Ohio from marshfield MO was going to cost more then the transmission though........

I guess I should just bite the bullet and rebuild the 643 I've got.

YMMV
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Old Today, 09:10 AM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 15,197
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
They had quite a few as of a month ago. Getting one freighted to Ohio from marshfield MO was going to cost more then the transmission though........

I guess I should just bite the bullet and rebuild the 643 I've got.

YMMV

I was probably within 100 miles of them this weekend I couldve picked it up and brought it back... when i got mine I drove out and they loaded it up into my pickup for me..
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Old Today, 09:15 AM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Aylett,VA
Posts: 46
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: S-1800
Engine: NAVSTAR DT 466
Rated Cap: 49
Lots of options. Once I’ve moved this week I’ll dive in. There’s a transmission place in Little Rock, still a few hours a way, that has some transmissions. I was pretty happy topping out a 58mph downhill. So I’m not worried about speed. I want something that’s strong. I want to take this bus around the country a few times.
Once I find one, I’ll research the posts , but I’m sure I’ll have more questions. I know where to go for answers!
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Old Today, 09:35 AM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
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Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I was probably within 100 miles of them this weekend I couldve picked it up and brought it back... when i got mine I drove out and they loaded it up into my pickup for me..
Shizzlesticks. I would have paid you for doing that. I just don't have the day to burn to drive out there and back. And I really don't want to pay 1000 bucks to ship a 500 dollar transmission. The rebuild kit is 600 bucks plus my time.

Let me know if you swing out that way again.
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