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Old 07-21-2022, 01:52 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: On the road. Currently traveling thru Texas. In Canadian Tx with a busted Allison 545 rn.
Posts: 62
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt466e
Exclamation What all is needed to swap an Allison at545 to an Allisonmd 3060

I'm still stranded in Canadian texas. I have a lead on an Allison md3060. It came out of a pusher diesel motorhome. The motor home had an 8.3 Cummins in it.

I have international dt466e, in a 2000 3800 series School Bus.

I'm in the middle of nowhere and it's been over 2 months that I've been stranded here. This is the first good lead I've had on anything that might fit in this bus.

I am a fish out of water and could genuinely use any advice available.

What parts will I need to do the swap over?

I have a guy in town that can hook into the computer and I have another guy in town that can do the Driveline shortening.

What about my rear end?

How do I know it's going to work for my bus?

I'm sorry for being a noob and having so many Elementary questions but I really need to get on the road and get out of here.

🙏 please help

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Old 07-21-2022, 02:55 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,833
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
you will need likely a flex plate and possibly different hub adapter for the crasnk (and shorter bolts to bolt up a 3060..



best thing to do is see if one of the members on here that has a 466E mated to an allison MD3060 can get you the last 8 of their VIN... then you can call an IH dealer and ask about those parts for their VIN.. that gets you the part numbers you need to look for.. wouldnt hurt to get the part number for the flywheel as well..



same dealer ( or a different one) can get you the part numbers for those parts on YOUR VIN.. now you compare.. the differences you know are parts you need to source.. ie from ther used market is the easiest.. vaanderhaags, TPI, junkyard etc...


the SAE2 to SAE3 ring just unbots from your flywheel housing.. that allows you to mate the bell from a 3060...



the 3060 weights roughly the same as an MT643 so you shouldnt need a secondary support mount, however again.. if a member has a 3060 on a 466E they can look at their bus and see if there is a secondary support mount for the trans.. if so you will need to source / make one.. I honestly cant remember..


controls.. ideally if you can get the TCM , shifter pad and wiring harness from the donor RV then you have something to work with.. if the RV was 1998 or older then id say Pass.. as you want to stay WTEC-III (late 98 and newer) so you can talk to your Bus's engine computer...



your engine computeris new enough it will have the J1939 data link which provides throttle and other engine data to the trans TCM for it to work right.. thus why you want to stay 1999 and newer for your TCM, shift pad, harness and TCM (others can comment if the transmission is different or not from the earlier setups... I honestly dont know..



you will likely have ot have your driveshaft shortened.. if you have air brakes no concerns about park brake.. if you have a drum brake on the back of the 545 then good luck.. ive never seen a 3060 with a drum on the back..
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Old 07-21-2022, 11:00 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: On the road. Currently traveling thru Texas. In Canadian Tx with a busted Allison 545 rn.
Posts: 62
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt466e
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
you will need likely a flex plate and possibly different hub adapter for the crasnk (and shorter bolts to bolt up a 3060..



best thing to do is see if one of the members on here that has a 466E mated to an allison MD3060 can get you the last 8 of their VIN... then you can call an IH dealer and ask about those parts for their VIN.. that gets you the part numbers you need to look for.. wouldnt hurt to get the part number for the flywheel as well..



same dealer ( or a different one) can get you the part numbers for those parts on YOUR VIN.. now you compare.. the differences you know are parts you need to source.. ie from ther used market is the easiest.. vaanderhaags, TPI, junkyard etc...


the SAE2 to SAE3 ring just unbots from your flywheel housing.. that allows you to mate the bell from a 3060...



the 3060 weights roughly the same as an MT643 so you shouldnt need a secondary support mount, however again.. if a member has a 3060 on a 466E they can look at their bus and see if there is a secondary support mount for the trans.. if so you will need to source / make one.. I honestly cant remember..


controls.. ideally if you can get the TCM , shifter pad and wiring harness from the donor RV then you have something to work with.. if the RV was 1998 or older then id say Pass.. as you want to stay WTEC-III (late 98 and newer) so you can talk to your Bus's engine computer...



your engine computeris new enough it will have the J1939 data link which provides throttle and other engine data to the trans TCM for it to work right.. thus why you want to stay 1999 and newer for your TCM, shift pad, harness and TCM (others can comment if the transmission is different or not from the earlier setups... I honestly dont know..



you will likely have ot have your driveshaft shortened.. if you have air brakes no concerns about park brake.. if you have a drum brake on the back of the 545 then good luck.. ive never seen a 3060 with a drum on the back..
A genuine thank you! I see you all over the forums helping people. I'm sure your work has impacted more people's lives than you realize.

Seems like you don't find much of that in the world these days.

That's also why I stay part of this website. On the other forums there seems to be a lot more badgering of people.
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Old 07-23-2022, 03:59 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: On the road. Currently traveling thru Texas. In Canadian Tx with a busted Allison 545 rn.
Posts: 62
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt466e
I've attached pictures of the conversation between myself and the seller. This gives more information on the transmission. Do you think it'll work?
Attached Thumbnails
Screenshot_20220723-155741_Messenger.jpg   Screenshot_20220723-155806_Messenger.jpg  
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Old 07-23-2022, 04:04 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: On the road. Currently traveling thru Texas. In Canadian Tx with a busted Allison 545 rn.
Posts: 62
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt466e
If I understand correctly the Allison 545 that I have right now is an SAE 3, is that correct?
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:37 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,592
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
probably

I have only seen sae3 housings on a 545 transmission. BUT, the adapter on the rear of the engine can be a sae#2 and have a #2 to#3 adapter ring. I have seen that many times.

I have seen allison 2000 series transmission with #2 and #3 housings.

I think the the 3000 series and the mt640 series are in #2 only.

A #2 adapter for a cummins 5.9 is not that common.

a MT640 series on a cummins 5.9 is not that common.


a 3060 on a mechanical engine is not that common

a 2000 or 1000 series transmission on a mechanical engine I have only seen Do It Yourself installs

mt1545 is not that common.

william
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:46 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,592
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
3060 from mechanical motor

so the 3060 would be a #2 housing.....

1996 would be an older controller system.

1996 most would be for a mechanical injection engine.....

( I kinda wish I had a #2 housing... the 3060 is a big strong transmission and I dont think I could break it)

I think you might think about getting a wire harness
1) will work for a 1996 3060
2) will connect to your 466e

transmission
Transmission Control Unit
shift pad that is correct for controller/transmission
wire harness

I do not know enough to tell you what these would be. I THINK I know enough that these are things I would really try to confirm before I spent the pennies.

william
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Old 07-23-2022, 10:18 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,833
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
integrating the electronic transmissions correctly with the modern engines is a Huge imporovement over running them in TPS only mode.. I first ran my allison 1000 in TPS inly mode and it sucked.. wqouldnt downshift on cruise control, upshifts really didnt reflect engine load, and other wierd shift related annoyances...



your 466E has J1939, get the correct wiring and TCM to use it and you'll be a lot happier with the install..


if the motorhome burnt up chances are the harness has been damaged or even the TCM if power was applied during the fire.. if the harness didnt melt or take heat stress id still be leery of the TCM and shift pad
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Old 07-27-2022, 03:20 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Oregon
Posts: 16
Year: 2009
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 4200
Engine: VT365 International
I know in the later model Allison transmissions the torque converter is matched to the engine RPM. If this is the same in the olderAllison transmissions you may want to compare the Cummins 8.3 RPM to the 444 rpm. If the two RPMís are drastically different you may want to educate yourself on what will/could happen Think converter transferring power to soon or to late and or locking up to soon or to late. This may not be a big deal but itís something to be aware of.
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Old 07-27-2022, 04:26 PM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Snowflake, Arizona
Posts: 343
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American Rear Engine
Engine: C-8.3-300 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 40 Prisoners
Have you checked Colaws RV salvage in Carthage, Missouri. They have a large amount of scrap RV’s and may have what your looking for in a transmission swap.
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Old 07-27-2022, 07:37 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 191
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
I would only attempt with a complete donor standing by. My .02 learned the hard way.
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Old 07-28-2022, 09:10 AM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,833
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
I know in the later model Allison transmissions the torque converter is matched to the engine RPM. If this is the same in the olderAllison transmissions you may want to compare the Cummins 8.3 RPM to the 444 rpm. If the two RPMís are drastically different you may want to educate yourself on what will/could happen Think converter transferring power to soon or to late and or locking up to soon or to late. This may not be a big deal but itís something to be aware of.

allison used to have 5 different converters for the AT54x series.. in later years (the 90s) then went simply to 2.. just a "gas" and a "diesel"...



there are a couple different converters for the 3000 series, however most commercial diesels run in the low-mid 2000s for RPM max so stall rates in the low to high teens generally work for all. higher torque engines will stall a but higher but still nowhere close to their max.



RPMs of your TCM play much more into operation-affecting than do the converters.. a 2400 RPM max engine wont want to run a 2700 RPM TCM.. it will never shift at full throttle.. a 2700 RPM engine running a 2400 RPM TCM will seem to shift early all the time
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Old 09-18-2022, 11:18 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: On the road. Currently traveling thru Texas. In Canadian Tx with a busted Allison 545 rn.
Posts: 62
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt466e
I got the bus started today!

Have a leak on one of the fittings but that should be an easy fix.

I got her to shift thru the gears!!!

Smooth as butter!!!


I probably looked like aa crazy person when that happened! I was laughing and crying, hysterically at the same time.

Thank u to everyone for their help and words of encouragement!!!

Been an Insane amount of super hard work but I did it.

*“You know the greatest danger facing us is ourselves, an irrational fear of the unknown. But there’s no such thing as the unknown — only things temporarily hidden, temporarily not understood.”

- Captain James T Kirk.
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Old 09-19-2022, 10:18 AM   #14
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: East TN
Posts: 191
Year: 1999
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Congrats !!!
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