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02-14-2017, 08:52 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: BC
Posts: 21
Year: 2002
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
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2002 Thomas 5.9 cummins power increase
Hi all, I spent the summer in my bus which I purchased in the spring. It is a 2002 Thomas built coach on a freightliner chassis, 5.9 ISB190 Cummins, with an at 545 auto.
The bus treated me quite well in 10,000km I put on her, save for a shredded drive belt and a leaky #5 injector line, a new connector tube and injector line solved it.
This spring I'm planning on doing a better conversion, to set it up for music festivals and road tripping.
Now to the point, like anything, it could use a little more power, are there any ways to increase the power of these beasts?
Can I fit a manual boost controller to the wastegate actuator? can I fool the MAP sensor into fueling more? Up rated RV injectors?
I have a digital boost and EGT gauge, but haven't fitted it, not 100 percent sure where to mount the sensors.
Thanks in advance
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02-14-2017, 09:24 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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A mechanical 5.9 with an inline pump can be dialed up with just the fuel screw. Pick up 15 to 20 ponies easily. Electronic engines are much more complicated.
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02-14-2017, 09:25 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: BC
Posts: 21
Year: 2002
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
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I should add it's a VP44 electronically controlled injection pump
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02-14-2017, 09:55 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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With the VP44, you'll most likely need to change out injector tips in order to flow more fuel.
Common rail is a whole different story. You just plug a laptop into it and turn up the power.
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02-15-2017, 06:54 AM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 266
Year: 1990
Coachwork: BB
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins
Rated Cap: 25.999K
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You can turn the juice up on those very easy, its all about fuel and air. You're best bet would be to get on a diesel forum that's just for Cummins. But i will warn you, We diesel guys on the forums are total A-holes about opinions and such! There is not a lot of "nice guys" like here on Skoolie.... Look for stuff to heat up a 24 valve VP44. Tons of stuff out there.
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02-15-2017, 06:57 AM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
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The AT545 is not going to handle a ton of extra power.
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02-15-2017, 07:03 AM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 266
Year: 1990
Coachwork: BB
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins
Rated Cap: 25.999K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird
The AT545 is not going to handle a ton of extra power.
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He DOES bring a solid point.....
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02-15-2017, 09:35 AM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: BC
Posts: 21
Year: 2002
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDR76
You can turn the juice up on those very easy, its all about fuel and air. You're best bet would be to get on a diesel forum that's just for Cummins. But i will warn you, We diesel guys on the forums are total A-holes about opinions and such! There is not a lot of "nice guys" like here on Skoolie.... Look for stuff to heat up a 24 valve VP44. Tons of stuff out there.
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I've looked around a decent amount, and this being the industrial engine, it doesn't have any tuners available ad it's Dodge vp44 brother.
So can the industrial vp44 flow enough fuel through larger injectors/tips if I can fool the boost?
And with regards to the AT545 it's supposed to he able to hold 300hp.
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02-15-2017, 09:47 AM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,830
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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in my opinion the 545 is rated conservativelty on its labels.. you do need to keep its revs up or it will burn..
I ran a 545 behind a 454 gasser that was built..
the 545 has low line pressure until you get its revs up at least 1800 or above.. so if you turn up an engine to prodice more low RPM torque oyu may have an issue with slipping it off the line..
-Christopher
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02-15-2017, 09:49 AM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazyistkarl
So can the industrial vp44 flow enough fuel through larger injectors/tips if I can fool the boost?
And with regards to the AT545 it's supposed to he able to hold 300hp.
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Yes. But make sure your lift pump is providing sufficient fuel or you'll burn up your injection pump. Best way is to add a fuel pressure gauge, though a low pressure light will suffice.
For the AT545, it would be a good idea to have a good transmission temperature gauge.
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02-15-2017, 10:19 AM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Tranny temp gauge on any big auto is a must have in my simple mind.
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02-15-2017, 10:24 AM
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#12
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Pyro gauge before turning up smoke. Temps can melt aluminum pistons.
Now, ask me how I know this...
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02-15-2017, 10:24 AM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Tranny temp gauge on any big auto is a must have in my simple mind.
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I completely agree. But I'd say it's especially important if you're turning up the power going to a 545.
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02-15-2017, 06:39 PM
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#14
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: BC
Posts: 21
Year: 2002
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP EF
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
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It's got a tranny temp gauge from factory, not as good as a real read out but better than nothing?
And on the topic of gauges and a pyro, where is the best place to mount it on these particular engines, on other vehicles I mounted it in the EGR blanking plate.
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02-15-2017, 06:44 PM
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#15
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazyistkarl
And on the topic of gauges and a pyro, where is the best place to mount it on these particular engines, on other vehicles I mounted it in the EGR blanking plate.
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Pyro- pre or post turbo. Difference is pre is about 250 degrees toastier. Some folks used to worry about pre-turbo probe being sucked-into turbo, parts scatter, etc., but meh- get decent one-piece probe. Something something math.
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02-15-2017, 07:01 PM
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#16
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Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 138
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You sound lke Peter Griffin. LOL
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02-15-2017, 08:10 PM
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#17
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 2,233
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When you turn up the power you are going to increase the waste heat, particularly on a long grade.
If you don't watch your exhaust temp you will melt a piston. Exhaust temp is particularly a problem with all Cummins engines. As long as you keep it under 1,100* F you should be okay.
The other heat is you are going to be heating up the coolant on a long grade as well. The problem with all Type 'D' buses, regardless of whether it is an FE or an RE, it is very difficult to flow enough air across the radiator to cool things down. On the FE engines it is a function of the hole in front and the dog house. Neither one is very large and will only allow a certain amount of air to flow through. Yes you can put transmission coolers, engine oil coolers, and larger radiator. But at some point you reach the point of diminishing returns because you can only flow so much air to cool things off.
RE buses are even worse. You don't have the problem of a limited size for an opening. Instead you are trying to flow air from a low pressure area to a high pressure area. No matter what you do physics works against you and the amount of air you can flow is limited.
Roof or skirt mounting additional coolers or radiators could be an option but it will start to look really odd fairly quickly.
Good luck!
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02-15-2017, 08:17 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,830
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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at least with a cummins he isnt limited to 1/2 a radiator like those of us with conventional IHC chassis busses are.. (DT360,DT466,T444E)...
worst design EVER
-Christopher
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02-16-2017, 08:10 PM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Posts: 1,634
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Crown / Pusher
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
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On a RE bus , what if a person where to make a scoop say around 2 in out into the airstream & as large as the intake screen for the radiator??
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02-16-2017, 08:24 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Any help feeding cool air to any RE is gonna be a good thing. Most are barely adequate from the factory.
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