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Old 01-17-2021, 08:27 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 21
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
6BT/MD3060 Trans Code Help

So I bought this bus 3 years back without doing nearly enough research. The reading I've done since tells me I accidentally stumbled upon a pretty solid combo. Front engine Bluebird TC2000. I wouldn't mind 8.3L power, but my 5.9 is a 6 valve rated at 230hp, and as I've figured out the MD3060 is the bees knees.

My build has taken a looooonnnnngg time, but it'll be usable this summer. I took the bus in for fluids, a couple fuel leaks, and a sticky throttle over Xmas and the shop didn't tell me until I was picking it up that they don't touch trans codes. I have a local shop that's my fallback, but I'm hoping I might be able to fix this one. The code is intermittent, more present when it's cold, and it's 21 12, which is a TPS sensor low code. I can see the throttle but can't quite figure out which is the TPS so I can meter the cable and see if I can adjust. Anyone able to point it out to me? Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:35 PM   #2
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Year: 1999
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Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gl21133 View Post
but my 5.9 is a 6 valve rated at 230hp, and as I've figured out the MD3060 is the bees knees.

....and a sticky throttle over Xmas and the shop didn't tell me until I was picking it up that they don't touch trans codes. ..... The code is intermittent, more present when it's cold, and it's 21 12,which is a TPS sensor low code. I can see the throttle but can't quite figure out which is the TPS so I can meter the cable and see if I can adjust. Anyone able to point it out to me? Thanks in advance!

a ***6*** valve 6-cylander? I think the all-mechanical ones were 12 valves, eh? And the computer-controlled ones are 24-valve, eh? And the MD3060 is a computer-controlled tranny that needs an ECU to talk to, eh? Or am I wrong here?


If I'm right, and you have the 24-valve 5.9L, then the TPS is on the pedal. But that should throw an ECU code also, eh?


So I don't know what to say now...
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:57 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 21
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
LOL, my brain wasn’t working. Obviously not a 6 valve, but it is indeed a 12 valve unless someone has done a good job of disguising it. It has 6 individual valve covers.
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:37 AM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Posts: 21
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
I couldn't snap my own pics as the bus is in storage during the week, but this is exactly what my combo looks like:

Engine - https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...cture12166.jpg

Trans (shifter) - https://d2uhsaoc6ysewq.cloudfront.ne...0-19782965.jpg
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:36 AM   #5
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Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 168
Year: 1998
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Chassis: MPV, 40'
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gl21133 View Post
I couldn't snap my own pics as the bus is in storage during the week, but this is exactly what my combo looks like:

Engine - https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...cture12166.jpg

Trans (shifter) - https://d2uhsaoc6ysewq.cloudfront.ne...0-19782965.jpg
Just for the record, I have that shift selector too and mine is a B-300 trans. Still a 6 speed
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:40 AM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwnielsen View Post
Just for the record, I have that shift selector too and mine is a B-300 trans. Still a 6 speed
I double checked the serial number to the "My Transmission" tool on the Allison site. Definitely an MD3060. Do I really have that rare of a combo?
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:13 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
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Year: 1998
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Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
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No no no, I was mentioning it in case you need to do some service or order parts. "My Transmission" is a great resource and since you know the serial number you should be good to go.
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:10 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 187
Year: 1998
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Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gl21133 View Post
I can see the throttle but can't quite figure out which is the TPS so I can meter the cable and see if I can adjust. Anyone able to point it out to me? Thanks in advance!
I do not have the info needed but was wondering what the symptoms of this 21-12 code are?
Searches for this 5.9/MD3060 combo mostly include the 8.3 but I do understand you to have the 12-valve. Not sure what you are seeing, cable linkage from the throttle or electrical wiring to a sensor? Do you have the ability to access the trans ecm?

You may already have this: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/13...n-Md-3060.html
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:28 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Year: 1998
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Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
I do not have the info needed but was wondering what the symptoms of this 21-12 code are?
Searches for this 5.9/MD3060 combo mostly include the 8.3 but I do understand you to have the 12-valve. Not sure what you are seeing, cable linkage from the throttle or electrical wiring to a sensor? Do you have the ability to access the trans ecm?

You may already have this: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/13...n-Md-3060.html
I do have the manual, but thank you for the link. The main symptom I'm seeing is the shifting seems mildly "confused", mostly between 3rd and 4th, and 4th and 5th. The trans will upshift, then kick back down for a few seconds, then upshift again and stay there. It happens less after I've driven for 10-15 minutes.

I'm sure I can access the ECM, haven't tried to yet but I don't see why I couldn't.
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:43 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gl21133 View Post

I'm sure I can access the ECM, haven't tried to yet but I don't see why I couldn't.
I guess I meant for reading diagnostic information as needed in the troubleshooting section of the manual, like a Nexiq or similar device.

What were you seeing at the throttle, cable, wiring or a sensor?
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:48 PM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus View Post
I guess I meant for reading diagnostic information as needed in the troubleshooting section of the manual, like a Nexiq or similar device.

What were you seeing at the throttle, cable, wiring or a sensor?
Got it, no, I don't have a reader at this point.

I stupidly didn't get a picture when I was working on it yesterday. Should be able to later this week. The linkage is on the driver side, I can see the throttle cable coming in from the front and it appears there's a plunger on the rear that's pushed in as the throttle is pressed. I believe that's it, but there are also a few other pieces in the area that it could be. I'll see if I can get a picture later this week, hopefully tomorrow.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:30 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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there is no engine ECM on a 12 valve.. 1998 was right around the time allison switched from WTEC-II to WTEC-III, if its a WTEC-II no go on accessing the TCM.. as it requires a LONG OBSOLETE scan tool.. an old timer allison shop might still have one..



I **THINK** the cummins 12 valves all got WTEC-II and the 24 valves got WTEC-III, at least thats what ive seen in the field when helping people with their 6th gear or other diagnostics. you can read WTEC-III stuff with allison DOC and a nexiq or clone.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:32 PM   #13
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwnielsen View Post
No no no, I was mentioning it in case you need to do some service or order parts. "My Transmission" is a great resource and since you know the serial number you should be good to go.



ther B300 is considered part of the 3000 series,(world transmission) designed for buses
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:02 PM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 21
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
there is no engine ECM on a 12 valve.. 1998 was right around the time allison switched from WTEC-II to WTEC-III, if its a WTEC-II no go on accessing the TCM.. as it requires a LONG OBSOLETE scan tool.. an old timer allison shop might still have one..



I **THINK** the cummins 12 valves all got WTEC-II and the 24 valves got WTEC-III, at least thats what ive seen in the field when helping people with their 6th gear or other diagnostics. you can read WTEC-III stuff with allison DOC and a nexiq or clone.
Is there a simple way to tell WTEC-II vs III? I think Iíll be stopping by the bus tomorrow.
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:48 PM   #15
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Your bus is pre 24 valve which is about 99 or earlier, my 95 3060 is Wtec 2 and has a cable going to the rear of the trans to TPS, it's on top and is pretty easy to get to to check the voltage. Couple bolts and it drops right off. I bet it is just sticky because you have let it sit so long, or squirrels or mice have found a new home. See if you can disconnect at engine and feel movement, it should move real easy. Is your fluid level correct? 21-12 is TPS according to my Wtec 2 troubleshooting manual.
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:12 AM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Year: 1998
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Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
Your bus is pre 24 valve which is about 99 or earlier, my 95 3060 is Wtec 2 and has a cable going to the rear of the trans to TPS, it's on top and is pretty easy to get to to check the voltage. Couple bolts and it drops right off. I bet it is just sticky because you have let it sit so long, or squirrels or mice have found a new home. See if you can disconnect at engine and feel movement, it should move real easy. Is your fluid level correct? 21-12 is TPS according to my Wtec 2 troubleshooting manual.
It was just serviced so the fluid level should be good. I'll double check this weekend when working on it. Any chance you've got a pic of your setup? Sounds like ours are pretty close. Thanks for the reply!
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:36 AM   #17
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pic of TPS

Here is a pic of my engine and transmission, you can see the TPS at the rear of the tranny with a small black cable leading to it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC02025.jpg (217.8 KB, 32 views)
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:05 AM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 21
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9/Allison MD3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
Here is a pic of my engine and transmission, you can see the TPS at the rear of the tranny with a small black cable leading to it.
YES! That's what mine looks like too, the black cable running under the trans dipstick tube is what I was assuming was the TPS. Is the connector at the back?
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:00 PM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 187
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
The previous link I provided earlier was for the Allison Trouble Shooting Manual WTEC II and the WTEC III is here https://www.trucktransdiag.com/downloads/wtec3.pdf. What you have may depend on when the trans was manufactured.

You may/may not have the Deutsch diagnostic connector. It appears to be an option with the WTEC II and would allow you to use an updated type of scan tool. However it may not be needed if you just have an electric wiring issue.

The ECM terminology used was intended to be ECU, as used in the manuals referring to the electronic control unit of the transmission. The 12-valve does not have this for the engine as stated by cadillackid.
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:36 PM   #20
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yes the connector is right there.
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