Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-27-2016, 02:32 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
6BTA dies randomly while coming to a stop

'92 Blue Bird. I only have access to one side of the tank, as I don't have the key for the other side. Planned on drilling out the lock, haven't had a chance.

It's happened 3 times. I drive it 20-30 mins and it warms up, then I come up to a stop sign or light and it dies. 2 out of the 3 times its started right back up, 3rd time I had to use starting fluid.

How do the dual tanks work in these busses? I don't see a switch,m. My gauge reads half and I put some diesel in the driver side tank before it happened to me today.

Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 03:10 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
AlleyCat67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
I would think that they would work like big rigs with dual tanks..... they have a line connecting them so if you only put fuel in one side it will eventually balance out between them.... and also the fuel draws from one tank and the return line goes to the other. But that's not a foregone conclusion, BB may have done it differently.
__________________
My bus - Jasmine - External Build Website - YouTube Channel - TN/KY Meetup Group
As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he accompanied the level 60 dwarves on the Smaug the Dragon raid. Those powerlevelers probably invited him solely so he could trigger fellowship attacks for them.
AlleyCat67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 03:12 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Yeah just trying to narrow down to tank issue or fuel filter/pump related. It sat 8 Months prior to me buying it.
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 03:22 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
AlleyCat67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
A couple of quick and easy (and fairly cheap) things you can try....

Pull and drain the water separator.

Replace the fuel filters.

If it's an issue with fuel supply one or both of those may help. If not then you'll need to dig a little deeper.

I tend to think the fuel itself is probably ok, I'm presuming it was running all right prior to just shutting down?
__________________
My bus - Jasmine - External Build Website - YouTube Channel - TN/KY Meetup Group
As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he accompanied the level 60 dwarves on the Smaug the Dragon raid. Those powerlevelers probably invited him solely so he could trigger fellowship attacks for them.
AlleyCat67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 07:42 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Yeah, it will start and run all day long, including idle. Just dies randomly when coming to a stop, most notably not on flat ground, but it has happened on flat ground once. Where's the water separator on these busses?
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2016, 08:16 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
AlleyCat67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
It should be somewhere near the fuel filters... there are plenty of YouTube videos out there showing how to do this.
__________________
My bus - Jasmine - External Build Website - YouTube Channel - TN/KY Meetup Group
As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he accompanied the level 60 dwarves on the Smaug the Dragon raid. Those powerlevelers probably invited him solely so he could trigger fellowship attacks for them.
AlleyCat67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 01:32 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 722
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: 8.3l Cummins
Rated Cap: 78
Have you checked the fuel pick up(s) in the tanks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetype View Post
Yeah, it will start and run all day long, including idle. Just dies randomly when coming to a stop, most notably not on flat ground, but it has happened on flat ground once. Where's the water separator on these busses?
aaronsb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 01:55 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
I haven't. Going to check water traps and fuel filters first. Very familar with these motors in truck form, just not in a bus lol
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2016, 11:27 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
A lot of tanks have a filter inside. Not sure about yours but worth checking since it sounds like a fuel flow issue.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2016, 10:13 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Rameses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyCat67 View Post
I would think that they would work like big rigs with dual tanks..... they have a line connecting them so if you only put fuel in one side it will eventually balance out between them.... and also the fuel draws from one tank and the return line goes to the other. But that's not a foregone conclusion, BB may have done it differently.

That's only true of older trucks.

The government (in their infinite wisdom) at some point decided that crossover tubes presented an unacceptable risk of dumping all of your fuel on the road should it get broken.

They banned crossover tubes, and on trucks made since then you see all kinds of crazy BS involving float triggered switches for tank-to-tank transfer pumps, and return line pressure monitors to decide which tank to return fuel to, and a number of other things that engineers dreamed up to make a two tank design work without a crossover.

That's not to say the old crossover tube system was perfect either. I have a Mack Superliner that a previous owner put an aftermarket fuel pump/dryer system on while doing some hot-rodding work. That thing moves a tremendous amount of fuel. Enough that with a slight blockage in the crossover, after running for about 45 minutes the right tank was completely empty and the left tank had plenty of fuel in it. In the amount of time it took to drain some fuel to fill the fuel filters, the fuel level had evened back out. Just had to stop every 20-30 minutes and shut the engine down for a couple minutes, let some fuel move from the return tank to the supply tank, fire it back up and head on down the road. Got it back home, cleaned the tanks, put a bigger crossover on it, and haven't had a problem since.
Rameses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2016, 02:31 PM   #11
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameses View Post
The government (in their infinite wisdom) at some point decided that crossover tubes presented an unacceptable risk of dumping all of your fuel on the road should it get broken.
If it was the government that stopped this practice, then all I can say is... I agree with them wholeheartedly!

If I were designing a two-tank interconnected system there's no way in heck I'd put a tube that could break and drain the entire system only 6 inches off of the ground... No thanks.

It's my understanding that the most common system these days is to have a tee going to both tanks for intake and a tee going to both tanks for return. Basic hydrodynamics says that the more full tank will feed the intake first. Likewise, there will be a higher siphon effect pulling return fuel towards the empty side. As long as all the lines are equally clear and routed with minimal twists and turns it'll work just fine..
That doesn't address the issue of filling the tanks. I'm not sure how they equalize the tanks while filling. The simplest system would be to fill the tanks individually.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2016, 05:06 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
AlleyCat67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
On the big rigs (or anything else with dual tanks) that's what you do, fill them individually.

Hey, I never claimed to know HOW the tanks were interconnected, only that they are. A crossover line 6 inches off the ground is not a smart move... but they have to be connected some way.... I parked my truck one time and it was leaning at about a 15-20 degree angle with the driver's side lower.... some way most of the fuel drained out of the right tank into the left, and the engine was NOT running. When I moved it back to level ground they equalized again... again with the engine NOT running.

This was some hole in the wall truck stop up north, can't remember now where it was, all the parking was full except up on a hillside.... needless to say that wasn't a comfortable feeling (I had a high COG load) so I moved as soon as a spot opened up on level ground.
__________________
My bus - Jasmine - External Build Website - YouTube Channel - TN/KY Meetup Group
As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he accompanied the level 60 dwarves on the Smaug the Dragon raid. Those powerlevelers probably invited him solely so he could trigger fellowship attacks for them.
AlleyCat67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 10:18 AM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southeast Georgia
Posts: 28
Year: 1992
Chassis: Bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72 passengers
Check all fuel line connections. If they are only leaking slightly they can pull air in the line shutting down the engine.
I had some connections on my 1992 TC2000 that were leaking and it would shut down at idle.
I went through and replaced all of my fuel lines, from the fuel tank to the engine, resealed or replaced fuel fittings.
That made things better for me.
WLDNWALT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 10:48 AM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Elliot Naess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Posts: 2,505
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC-2000 Frt Eng, Tranny:MT643
Engine: 5,9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
Years ago, I came within a whisker of dumping almost 200 gallons on the road, after running over some metal debris which bounced up and hit the bottom-to-bottom crossover line.
If you must have one, the fittings and line should be behind the tanks, not below.
I would see about a larger tank, rather than installing a second.
If your bus came with two tanks and old-fashioned bottom crossover, you might want to take a real good look at it and see if you can protect it better.

As for the stalling engine... what the others said about filters.

On Millicent, air in the lines affected cold starting only. When I bought her, she needed very long cranking to start after being parked.
That turned out to be the fuel return hose, which had become porous with age, and air molecules snuck in when she was parked. Yes, the return line, which makes little sense to me. But that's what it was.
So for the stalling problem, I would start with the filters.

Also, what's the idle speed? Can you "save" the engine by taking the transmission to Neutral?
__________________

Elliot Naess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 07:51 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Lift pump is leaking. I could never see it because it was parked in the grass. Have a nice big puddle under the bus.
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2016, 09:22 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Elliot Naess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Posts: 2,505
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC-2000 Frt Eng, Tranny:MT643
Engine: 5,9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
I replaced Millicent's lift pump recently -- 1992 model.
My local NAPA Auto Parts had the pump in stock, because it is also used on Dodge pickups.
It was a straight forward enough job -- two bolts, assorted fittings. I may have run back to the store for a fitting or two, since the replacement pump had just slightly different connections.
Keep the new pump straight as you bolt it on, so the push-rod goes where it belongs.
__________________

Elliot Naess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 03:40 PM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Thanks, Cummins has a warehouse here in Austin, so I'm just going to grab one from them on Monday. There is a difference in lift pumps from what I've seen.

Also, I think part of the problem is an incorrect reading fuel gauge. It sits at half so I've only put diesel in it once. I foresee myself dropping the tank in the future to replace the sending unit.
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 04:04 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,751
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetype View Post
Thanks, Cummins has a warehouse here in Austin, so I'm just going to grab one from them on Monday. There is a difference in lift pumps from what I've seen.

Also, I think part of the problem is an incorrect reading fuel gauge. It sits at half so I've only put diesel in it once. I foresee myself dropping the tank in the future to replace the sending unit.
on a Bus you should have an access plate in the floor that you can pull up that is above your fuel tank.. then you can service the sending unit from up above..

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 05:26 PM   #19
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Yeah, that would be awesome if not for the hardwood floor, and subfloor.
Onetype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2016, 06:09 PM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
roach711's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,968
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onetype View Post
Yeah, that would be awesome if not for the hardwood floor, and subfloor.
4 plunge cuts with a circular saw and there you are.
__________________
The Roach Motel
roach711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.