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11-07-2016, 10:40 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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89 Bluebird, 5.9 Cummins
Hi all,
New here, looking to buy a 1989 Bluebird, with a Cummins 5.9. I haven't even looked at the bus yet, other than pictures. It is within 25 miles so I will drive down in a couple of days.
The owner says it has a blown head gasket.
Is this a common Cummins 5.9 ailment?
Also, what is the service life of a Cummins 5.9 before rebuild?
Also, also, as this is an early Cummins 5.9, the horsepower looks to be rated at 120. Is this enough power to pull my conversion and a car on a dolly?
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11-08-2016, 07:03 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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I worry for you in regards that you might be buying someone else's boat anchor. How can you be sure what is wrong without a tear down? There are plenty of busses out there. Used engines are about $3500.00. What condition are the tires? How many miles on steering parts?
How much work a person wants to do and can do is subjective. A bus with a bad engine or tranny is like a house with a bad foundation. You are going to have to spend money just to be like the next bus on the block.
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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11-08-2016, 08:21 AM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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The 5.9 had a minimum rating of 160 HP at 2500 and 400 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm.
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11-10-2016, 02:16 AM
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#4
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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89 Bluebird, 5.9 Cummins
While I agree, that a thorough tear may be warranted, and a
possible rebuild necessary, the initial cost of the bus, depending
upon it's condition may make it worthwhile.
I have been looking at buses for quite some time in various
sales sites. The cost of most buses, the size and condition I am
looking for is around $3k @ the low end up to $25K at the upper
end. So even if I have to rebuild this engine, $4K to $5k, I can
still justify it. I will have a bus with a fresh engine for around
$4.8k to 5.8K.
From what I have been able to determine, searching various
forums on Google, that the TBO of the Cummins 5.9 is around
400K miles, depending upon the maintenance and idle time.
This compares with around 180 to 250K miles for a Cat 3126.
I am going down in the next 2 days to look at the bus.
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11-10-2016, 07:59 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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the issue comes about if that head gasket was run for a long time and it steamed / cavitated a cylinder... I dont know enough aout the cummins to know enough if they are replaceable sleeves or if you could have a ruined block... then the cost goes way up...
the other thing I struggled with in my logic was 'is a fresh engine really needed?' sure one can say that a fresh engine is an awesome thing... however how many miles will you drive the bus per year? find a nice $4000 2001-2002 rust-free bus with a DT-466E and an MT-643 / 2000 series transmission and only 150k or so.. and very well may be able to run that bus 100k or more before ever touching it.. vs a nearly 30 year old bus that may have other 30 yr old bus issues...
my carpenter I paid too much for to have a DT-360 with only 85k on it... great bus.. ive run it 10k so far.. I dont regret it..
my second one I paid much less for and the body is nicer, its newer, has more creature comforts, and pretty much hop in the seat and drive.. no rust or roof leaks, no frozen brakes or rusted lines, etc...
it has 145k on it (Ive put 2 on it since I got it).. as far as i can tell the engine is in fine condition.. if I take care of it I may very well run it another 100k before I tear it apart... how many years? not sure..
or it may blow up tomorrow.. who knows..
if you plan to drive it all over the place and into remote areas then a fresh motor is a nice-to-have, but if its a few 1000 miles a year casual RV / traveller then a good-running bus with a few miles will likely be just fine..
-Christopher
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11-10-2016, 09:43 AM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Richmond Virginia
Posts: 932
Year: 1984
Engine: 366 Big block Chevy! :) w/ Stick shift
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Gosh i am with the majority here; a bus with a blown motor needs to be free in comparrison to what we often see that same bus sell for with a good motor $15oo to $25oo
Good luck whichever road you choose.
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11-10-2016, 11:01 AM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
the issue comes about if that head gasket was run for a long time and it steamed / cavitated a cylinder... I dont know enough aout the cummins to know enough if they are replaceable sleeves or if you could have a ruined block... then the cost goes way up...
the other thing I struggled with in my logic was 'is a fresh engine really needed?' sure one can say that a fresh engine is an awesome thing... however how many miles will you drive the bus per year? find a nice $4000 2001-2002 rust-free bus with a DT-466E and an MT-643 / 2000 series transmission and only 150k or so.. and very well may be able to run that bus 100k or more before ever touching it.. vs a nearly 30 year old bus that may have other 30 yr old bus issues...
my carpenter I paid too much for to have a DT-360 with only 85k on it... great bus.. ive run it 10k so far.. I dont regret it..
my second one I paid much less for and the body is nicer, its newer, has more creature comforts, and pretty much hop in the seat and drive.. no rust or roof leaks, no frozen brakes or rusted lines, etc...
it has 145k on it (Ive put 2 on it since I got it).. as far as i can tell the engine is in fine condition.. if I take care of it I may very well run it another 100k before I tear it apart... how many years? not sure..
or it may blow up tomorrow.. who knows..
if you plan to drive it all over the place and into remote areas then a fresh motor is a nice-to-have, but if its a few 1000 miles a year casual RV / traveller then a good-running bus with a few miles will likely be just fine..
-Christopher
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Great advise. It's all in what you want to do. Work on it constantly and spend money or just get on down the road.
As a kid in the back seat on vacation i look back and see the my dad was never so happy on vacation as till we had car trouble and he had to work on the car.
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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11-10-2016, 01:26 PM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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Bus with a blown head gasket.
I agree with all of Your comments. It is great to come
here to be able to bounce things off everyone. Hope
You don't get tired of me.
The bus I really want is a pusher, because I can get them
with basement storage and they tend to be longer.
The bus in question is a FE, if the engine needs to
be removed will take a great deal of effort, the same
for a pusher.
I am weighing the pros and cons of whether buying
a crippled unit is worth it. I agree, that after all is
said and done, whichever unit I end up with will not
get very many more miles, although my Bride and I
are planning on living in it.
I have crossed any units with a Cat 3126, (OK, I know this
thread is for the Cummins 5.9.) off of my list, because
it is the wrong choice for a school bus; the 3126 does not
like to idle for long periods of time. School buses idle for
for most of their life, except rural districts where they have
to drive a long ways between stops.
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11-10-2016, 02:43 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 2,233
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Major engine repairs on FE buses are a royal PITA!
If you pull the engine your hoist only has about 2" to move up and down to get the engine out. You will need a really stout hoist since on some of the FE's the rear engine mount is the transmission mount. In other words you will have to pull the engine out with the transmission attached.
If the bus is in good condition in all other respects you may want to consider purchasing a second bus for a donor bus.
On buses built in the '80's and early '90's it is relatively easy to swap stuff around because there are no electronic controls that would need figuring out. Most from '96 on had partial electronic control. All from about 2001 and newer are totally electronically controlled. And from about 2005 and newer everything got multi-plexed.
Good luck!
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11-10-2016, 03:08 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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and 2004+ everything got DPF and 2007+ everything got DEF..
-Christopher
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09-14-2021, 12:13 PM
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#11
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New Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 3
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Looking for transmission for my 89 bluebird. At545 Alison
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09-14-2021, 04:46 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaneperrin
Looking for transmission for my 89 bluebird. At545 Alison
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Personally, if the least desirable tranny gave out, I would look to replace it with a better unit. Not another highly undesirable AT545, that will have the same issues that toasted the current one.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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09-19-2021, 04:20 PM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
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Transmission
Stuck in Alabama with a 97 bluebird 5.9 Cummins Allison 545 transmission that will only go in reverse. No forward at all.
Is there a different transmission that can replace the Allison, since it appears Allison no longer sells rebuild kits and only use those kits for transmission they have to resell as rebuilt.
Apparently the 545 isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
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09-20-2021, 12:27 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Do a search here for the 1000/2000 Allison swap. Solve the negatives of the 545.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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09-20-2021, 10:53 AM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
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OP could also get a replacement junkyard AT545 for dirt cheap if he doesn't want to deal with the hassles/expense of a 1000/2000 series swap.
Some people that only drive their bus a handful of times per year may be fine with a 545.
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