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07-19-2015, 08:10 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 29
Year: 98
Chassis: TC 2000 RE
Engine: 8.3 cummins mechanical
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Help 8.3 cranks wont start!!!
Hi all- my Bus wont start!!
I need help- I live in Central MI area- I have a 97 or 98 Tc 2000 ( title says 98 but has 97 dashboard and mechanical 8.3) rear engine TC. We have had the bus 2 years, has always been trouble free- starts at -2 below runs great no smoke 200K, allsion 3060. Anyway it has sat for about 4 months ( we use as a farm coordination unit in summer ( sits plugged in not ran) Went to start it- cranks will not start NOT even any smoke like it has no fuel (1/2 tank)!!
I have read other article on Google and others start then stop. Mine will not start at all- only cranks. This bus usually starts after the most 3 cranks (2 seconds in dead winter after sitting a month.
We are planning a trip in 2 weeks ( great - bus wont start) I am a long way from a shop so Towing is going to break me just to get to a shop
Anyway PLEASE HELP
Other info
1. We went to Nebr in March - drove thru snow ice ( salt ) I was bad did not rinse off engine- the battery Disconnect very corroded hard to turn- but everything powers fine. I don't know if this corroded lift pump ( I don't even know if I have lift pump. I think I found bleeder nut - steel tube with apparent rubber fuel tube going to it.
If anyone can help greatly appreciate- replying to my post would be great calling me would be fantastic. number is 616-755-6241
thanks
David
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07-19-2015, 10:16 AM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Ok, remember the first rul- Don't Panic!!
Is the fuel shutoff working properly? Diesels usually stop because there isn't fuel.
also-tap on the tank and make sure it has fuel.
Gauges are notorious for being utterly horrible.
check if you have any emergency hatches/latches that aren't secured.
oh-I'd check all battery connections, all chassis grounds, all engine grounds and make sure they are clean & tight
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07-19-2015, 10:46 AM
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#3
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Almost There
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 89
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Rated Cap: 78 passenger
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If you think you may have corrosion issues, take a look at the chassis ground to battery connection. There should be a connection at the starter that branches to the block and the frame. Your starter is working, so that's probably good, but the frame and/or block grounds are often the culprit(s) in ECM/TCM issues.
Don't forget to disconnect your negative terminals before taking the leads apart. Hate for you to arc weld yourself to your bus...
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07-19-2015, 10:53 AM
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#4
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Almost There
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 89
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Rated Cap: 78 passenger
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Also this little tidbit from a thread on irv2.com:
"There is a Starter - Relay Solenoid somewhere in the engine compartment or close by- Just trace the small wire on the Starter Solenoid back to it- This also activates and locks in the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid when the starter is activated."
In this case, it ended up being a broken terminal at the starter relay, but there might be something in there to point you in the right direction...
The thread: Cummins 8.3 Starter wiring schematic - iRV2 Forums
Note: They never actually post the schematic.
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07-19-2015, 11:03 AM
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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As mentioned, check the solenoid on your fuel injection pump. Since you have a rear engine, have someone turn on the key while you watch the IP to see if the solenoid moves.
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07-19-2015, 11:31 AM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammit
If you think you may have corrosion issues, take a look at the chassis ground to battery connection. There should be a connection at the starter that branches to the block and the frame. Your starter is working, so that's probably good, but the frame and/or block grounds are often the culprit(s) in ECM/TCM issues.
Don't forget to disconnect your negative terminals before taking the leads apart. Hate for you to arc weld yourself to your bus...
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and remove any jewelry...
may sound funny, but I was working on a lawnmower battery, and it only takes a split second to arc your wedding ring and a wrench to make a nasty burn all way around your ring finger
I have proven this message!
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-19-2015, 11:44 AM
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmania
and remove any jewelry...
may sound funny, but I was working on a lawnmower battery, and it only takes a split second to arc your wedding ring and a wrench to make a nasty burn all way around your ring finger
I have proven this message!
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This proves your love and complete dedication to your spouse.
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07-19-2015, 11:47 AM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
This proves your love and complete dedication to your spouse.
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um, yeah.... that's the story we'll tell everyone
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-19-2015, 01:06 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmania
and remove any jewelry...
may sound funny, but I was working on a lawnmower battery, and it only takes a split second to arc your wedding ring and a wrench to make a nasty burn all way around your ring finger
I have proven this message!
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That's the first thing they taught us in Radio Maintenance school...both in the Army *and* Air Force.
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07-19-2015, 01:18 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooternj
That's the first thing they taught us in Radio Maintenance school...both in the Army *and* Air Force.
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After my lawnmower jolt, I remembered a guy years ago......
he was working on a VW Bug's electrical... I saw the burn a couple weeks later... fried to the bone
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-19-2015, 01:22 PM
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#11
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Almost There
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 89
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Rated Cap: 78 passenger
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I was in the Navy, submarines. We had to attend annual "battery compartment" training. Our battery was a series of cells that made 450vdc. Part of the movie portion was a ring welded to a wrench...
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07-19-2015, 02:02 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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I just fried the tip of my finger off a few weeks ago on the positive lead of my (former) truck's alternator.
And I knew better...
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07-19-2015, 02:05 PM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I just fried the tip of my finger off a few weeks ago on the positive lead of my (former) truck's alternator.
And I knew better...
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you got any idea how long I've been waiting to use that one?
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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07-19-2015, 02:28 PM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Very nice,,, VEry nice.
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07-19-2015, 04:42 PM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 29
Year: 98
Chassis: TC 2000 RE
Engine: 8.3 cummins mechanical
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which way should solenopid be- in or out for running
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07-19-2015, 05:38 PM
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#16
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Almost There
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 89
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000 RE
Engine: Cummins 8.3
Rated Cap: 78 passenger
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Not sure without looking at it, but I'd imagine key on position is opposite of key off position. Voltage on or off respectively.
I'm not familiar with the Cummins injector pump but if there's any kind of lever, it would be relaxed when off, not quite so relaxed when on, then move in relation to the accelerator.
My Cat is fly by wire, can't wait to dig into that thing...
Not trying to bs you, but I'm at work and don't have one in front of me to explain it...
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07-19-2015, 06:47 PM
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busdad
which way should solenopid be- in or out for running
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Just see if it moves when the key is turned.
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07-19-2015, 09:23 PM
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#18
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New Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1
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The 8.3 cummins usually has a large solenoid mounted on the rear end of the Injection Pump. The solenoid shaft is vertical, Pulls up for run, connected to an arm on the IP. Up is run, down rotates a shaft into the governor housing and blocks fuel flow for shutdown. I have a ford LN8000 dumptruck with the 8.3 and intermittent wiring issue somewhere with that solenoid. It's a dual coil solenoid, Pull up coil is much higher current, hold coil is smaller and pulls less juice. in mine the pull up portion refuses most days. I turn on power, reach under the fender and crank the solenoid into the run position until hold coil grabs and good to go.
I personally still prefer the cable and red handle on the 5.9 in my TC2000 "Tool Bus" No wiring hassles and I can shutdown whenver I want. To a certain degree is offers theft protection, most kids would have no clue what it's for or why it just cranks!!!
If the solenoid or wiring is bad and you just need it running, pull the solenoid up, wrap a piece of bailing wire around it and go crank it. Just have to pull the wire off at the end of the day for shutdown.
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07-20-2015, 07:02 AM
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#19
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 29
Year: 98
Chassis: TC 2000 RE
Engine: 8.3 cummins mechanical
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Wow smartlfy- now that was the type of answer I was looking for. The Barn is a half hour from our house- I am on the way there now- hopefully my next post will say mission accomplished ( bus started and brought home) with what you posted
__________________
David
Bus dad of 3 and husband of 1 ( wife that is )
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07-20-2015, 07:51 AM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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I'm betting its that shutoff solenoid.
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