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Old 09-28-2024, 01:38 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Help! Trans or diff for increased max speed??

I have a 1997 TC2000 5.9 Cummins. I can't find any specs or a plate for the transmission, so I'm not positive the make/model. Attached is a pic of the differential specs. Max speed is about 55mph on flat ground. Very slow up hills. I want to increase the max speed for the highway to at least 70mph if possible. My tachometer does not work, so I'm not positive what RPMs I'm hitting.
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Old 09-28-2024, 01:56 PM   #2
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4.44 is usually a decent highway gear if you have 11R22.5 tires.. do you have low profile tires where it would rev out at such an early speed?


if its slow on hills now.. gearing taller to get extra max speed will make it even slower on the hills..
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Old 09-28-2024, 02:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
4.44 is usually a decent highway gear if you have 11R22.5 tires.. do you have low profile tires where it would rev out at such an early speed?


if its slow on hills now.. gearing taller to get extra max speed will make it even slower on the hills..

No, I don't have low profile tires. It actually doesn't feel like my RPMs are very high when I hit 50-55. I just can't accelerate any more with pedal to the metal.
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Old 10-12-2024, 05:31 PM   #4
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If your 5.9 is a P pump you could do a governor kit and bump it to 4000 rpm assuming that your engine is in good condition, that and a few other things can push the hp into the mid 250 range.
Make certain that the killer dowel pin has been tabbed.
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Old 10-12-2024, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorthair View Post
If your 5.9 is a P pump you could do a governor kit and bump it to 4000 rpm assuming that your engine is in good condition, that and a few other things can push the hp into the mid 250 range.
Make certain that the killer dowel pin has been tabbed.
Oh thanks. I didn't know that. My tachometer isn't working, but it definitely doesn't feel like high RPMs with the pedal down. I'll have to see if I have the p pump.
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Old 10-12-2024, 07:14 PM   #6
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Replace the tac first. You can take a generic one from eBay. Your trans is an at545. Serial numbers with 32**** are 545
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Old 10-12-2024, 07:34 PM   #7
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Stock it is probably governed at 25-2700 rpm its basically the same engine that Dodge used from 94 to early 98 and the same tweaks should work, bigger injectors are fairly inexpensive, boost elbow, fuel plate, and a host of other things. But absolutely the first thing to do is the killer dowel pin, if that drops out it normally takes all the timing gears $$$$.
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Old 10-13-2024, 08:35 AM   #8
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My tc2000

I have 4.3 rear gears with 545 transmission. Tires are 10r22.5.

The injection pump delivers maximum fuel at 2250 rpm. That means the governor springs are set to 2250 rpm.

Speeds on flat land and no wind 58-60 mph and about 2600 rpm. Any headwind or up hill, speeds are more like 2250-2300 rpm and 52 mph.

Your goal of 70 mph is likely to require some modifications to your fuel system, and maybe turbocharger.

I would recommend a number 10 fuel plate. 3000 rpm governor springs. If you spin the engine past 3000 rpm- recommend also valve springs that offer more spring pressure. This is the difficult part, advance pump timing to 17*-18* There is not much space. Very few have used th HE351w turbocharger, I think this would be a very good turbocharger to use. I think a more common one is hx35. Set boost level to 30psi. New headbolts or head studs are advised. The timing changes add cylinder pressures that may result in head gasket failure.

All of this stuff is on YouTube university. Working space is tight. The left frame rail kinda in the way.
William
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Old 10-13-2024, 08:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
I have 4.3 rear gears with 545 transmission. Tires are 10r22.5.

The injection pump delivers maximum fuel at 2250 rpm. That means the governor springs are set to 2250 rpm.

Speeds on flat land and no wind 58-60 mph and about 2600 rpm. Any headwind or up hill, speeds are more like 2250-2300 rpm and 52 mph.

Your goal of 70 mph is likely to require some modifications to your fuel system, and maybe turbocharger.

I would recommend a number 10 fuel plate. 3000 rpm governor springs. If you spin the engine past 3000 rpm- recommend also valve springs that offer more spring pressure. This is the difficult part, advance pump timing to 17*-18* There is not much space. Very few have used th HE351w turbocharger, I think this would be a very good turbocharger to use. I think a more common one is hx35. Set boost level to 30psi. New headbolts or head studs are advised. The timing changes add cylinder pressures that may result in head gasket failure.

All of this stuff is on YouTube university. Working space is tight. The left frame rail kinda in the way.
William
Thanks so much. I appreciate it
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Old 10-13-2024, 10:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
I have 4.3 rear gears with 545 transmission. Tires are 10r22.5.

The injection pump delivers maximum fuel at 2250 rpm. That means the governor springs are set to 2250 rpm.

Speeds on flat land and no wind 58-60 mph and about 2600 rpm. Any headwind or up hill, speeds are more like 2250-2300 rpm and 52 mph.

Your goal of 70 mph is likely to require some modifications to your fuel system, and maybe turbocharger.

I would recommend a number 10 fuel plate. 3000 rpm governor springs. If you spin the engine past 3000 rpm- recommend also valve springs that offer more spring pressure. This is the difficult part, advance pump timing to 17*-18* There is not much space. Very few have used th HE351w turbocharger, I think this would be a very good turbocharger to use. I think a more common one is hx35. Set boost level to 30psi. New headbolts or head studs are advised. The timing changes add cylinder pressures that may result in head gasket failure.

All of this stuff is on YouTube university. Working space is tight. The left frame rail kinda in the way.
William
All of the above and while you are doing 60lb valve springs you can add a shutter style exhaust brake and triple your service brake life.
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Old 10-13-2024, 11:30 AM   #11
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"Trans or diff for increased max speed?"
.
Neither.
Your factory engineer team designed that combination for safety and longevity.
.
Let us speculate:
a -- change the axle ratio for higher speed automatically reduces two essentials -- startability and gradability.
Less startability stresses your transmission; you will see a sharp decline in fluid life because the innerds are slipping more... as they are designed to do.
.
Less gradability leads to a sharp decline in your ability to maintain a safe speed while climbing hills.
And it doesn't have to be a day in the Rocky Mountains, you may notice significant slowing just approaching a freeway overpass.
.
Your engine is simply under-powered to accomplish your desires.
Could you alter its components, so it produces more torque?
Sure... with a corresponding reduction in longevity in other areas.
Your transmission can last for decades with its factory settings, or you can plan on investing in repeated re-builds while you camp in the repair-shop parking-lot.
.
Could you reinforce your drivetrain, engineer each component such as U-joints, driveshaft, transmission?
With enough money.
And after something breaks, you could BuildItBackBetter© by throwing parts at it.
More fun than it sounds.
.
.
b)
I think you have the wrong rig.
I think a highway bus is factory engineered to accomplish your Go! Quicker! goals.
.
And that begs the question:
* Why the rush?
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Old 10-13-2024, 02:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeMargeInBaja View Post
"Trans or diff for increased max speed?"
.
Neither.
Your factory engineer team designed that combination for safety and longevity.
.
Let us speculate:
a -- change the axle ratio for higher speed automatically reduces two essentials -- startability and gradability.
Less startability stresses your transmission; you will see a sharp decline in fluid life because the innerds are slipping more... as they are designed to do.
.
Less gradability leads to a sharp decline in your ability to maintain a safe speed while climbing hills.
And it doesn't have to be a day in the Rocky Mountains, you may notice significant slowing just approaching a freeway overpass.
.
Your engine is simply under-powered to accomplish your desires.
Could you alter its components, so it produces more torque?
Sure... with a corresponding reduction in longevity in other areas.
Your transmission can last for decades with its factory settings, or you can plan on investing in repeated re-builds while you camp in the repair-shop parking-lot.
.
Could you reinforce your drivetrain, engineer each component such as U-joints, driveshaft, transmission?
With enough money.
And after something breaks, you could BuildItBackBetter© by throwing parts at it.
More fun than it sounds.
.
.
b)
I think you have the wrong rig.
I think a highway bus is factory engineered to accomplish your Go! Quicker! goals.
.
And that begs the question:
* Why the rush?

I did transmission and rear on my red bus... not so much for max speed but for better driveability.. it was already a 70 MPH bus maxxed out foot to the floor with its 545 and 3.54 gears.. so I had to listen to the screaming 7.3 at 2500 RPM (seemed to be where it averaged to go 65).. and because an engine out of its power band means it makes a lot of wasted heat.. i was also listening to the roaring fan on summer days...



reality was it wasnt the most fun to drive.. so when the 545 started to fail I made the decision to do a transmission swap... this resulted in much nicer driveabilty and much better fuel economy.. being that i was then over-geared.. i finally re-geared the rear-end so that my engine transmission and running gear are all in harmony..


yes the bus now has a top speed of 90... I have ZERO interest in even approaching 80 in a bus but by increasing the max speed oi have given myself fantastic driveabiltiy at 65.. all 6 gears are very useable, it drops to 5th going up minor to medium inclines.. on major inclines i drop my speed down to 50-55(sometimes slower) (for obvious reasons.. the downhill).. and it drops to 4th gear on those steep inclines..



I have a bus now that pretty much drives perfect for the various scenerios I put oit through from backroads to freeways.. I did soup up the engine a bit.. mainly because I live in and travel through (and in) cities (yes i know the opposite of most here).. I need to be able to get up to traffic speed on short ramps sometimes..


it makes no sense to go changing valve springs and governor settings so you can cruose the highways at 3500 RPM listening to that noise the whole time just making heat... the 5.9 will spin there but its not where it likes to run... to me the only reason t oraise an RPM governor is to be able to "run out" a lower gear when accelerating so you can have a quicker pick up to speed.. but once you get up to speed you dont want to be turning 3000 RPM.. you want to gear so that the bus is in its happy place at the cruising speed you are looking for..



and the bus may not be built for it.. in that case you have to buy a different bus or go through the process of building the whole bus you want.. from suspension, motor, trans, axles, brakes...



its much easier to find a bus built for the travel someone wants to do than to build it.. but there are things you can do to a bus to make it closer to what is desired.. but be smart about it..
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Old 10-13-2024, 03:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeMargeInBaja View Post
Your factory engineer team designed that combination for safety and longevity.

Automotive Engineers are no longer considered the god-tier geniuses they once were, and are now considered more-or-less replaceable cogs. This has been the way of things since around the late '80s and early '90s, when the accountants and MBA's started to overrule the engineers in some fairly critical decisions, or worse, to give them specific tasks that actually have lessened the life and made servicability more of a PITA--since it bolsters the bottom-line of the company either pre-sale or post-sale, in the service department. Granted, Skool buses are less prone to these types of behavior, generally, but it has become such a noticeable part of the automotive market as a whole lately that thinking like that will actually cost you money, time, and stress in the long-run.


Add to that the fact that the overall complexity of everything in the modern world has made it so that people learning the basics of the engineering of a vehicle, specific or not, relatively simplistic and fairly easy to do for anyone with an inclination and the capacity to survive in our modern tech-focused world.



I would also add that operating with the "big business knows best, and is looking out for me and my best interests" these days is almost laughable considering that modern car companies are selling our data collected from our cars to the insurance companies so they can have a reason to raise rates/extract more money from us, and that companies such as BMW are now charging on a monthly basis for the ability to use "features" built-in to their vehicles. Even if I never pay for the subscription to use the car as built, when something in that system breaks, I would still have to pay the higher prices for the performance parts simply to be able to repair the vehicle. That's like a company charging you on a monthly basis to use the turbo on your diesel... It makes zero sense until you realize that they are not trying to sell products anymore, because they want you to own nothing and be happy about it. They're trying to sell subscriptions for your life, because they want to refuse to allow us to own anything, because they want to own it all.



It is better to take the full accountability and the full ownership of everything that you do, and build it better than they did; it's not the 60s anymore, and they are actually trying to screw us as hard and as often as they can. Not only is the information out there, but there are also things like EZ-calculators where you can input some information into a program created by an actual smart-person that will tell you much of what you need to know, or what kinds of power/gearing/fluids or whatever you need to do whatever it is that you're trying to do.
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Old 10-13-2024, 05:05 PM   #14
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Old 10-14-2024, 07:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
Automotive Engineers are no longer considered the god-tier geniuses they once were, and are now considered more-or-less replaceable cogs. This has been the way of things since around the late '80s and early '90s, when the accountants and MBA's started to overrule the engineers in some fairly critical decisions, or worse, to give them specific tasks that actually have lessened the life and made servicability more of a PITA--since it bolsters the bottom-line of the company either pre-sale or post-sale, in the service department. Granted, Skool buses are less prone to these types of behavior, generally, but it has become such a noticeable part of the automotive market as a whole lately that thinking like that will actually cost you money, time, and stress in the long-run.


Add to that the fact that the overall complexity of everything in the modern world has made it so that people learning the basics of the engineering of a vehicle, specific or not, relatively simplistic and fairly easy to do for anyone with an inclination and the capacity to survive in our modern tech-focused world.



I would also add that operating with the "big business knows best, and is looking out for me and my best interests" these days is almost laughable considering that modern car companies are selling our data collected from our cars to the insurance companies so they can have a reason to raise rates/extract more money from us, and that companies such as BMW are now charging on a monthly basis for the ability to use "features" built-in to their vehicles. Even if I never pay for the subscription to use the car as built, when something in that system breaks, I would still have to pay the higher prices for the performance parts simply to be able to repair the vehicle. That's like a company charging you on a monthly basis to use the turbo on your diesel... It makes zero sense until you realize that they are not trying to sell products anymore, because they want you to own nothing and be happy about it. They're trying to sell subscriptions for your life, because they want to refuse to allow us to own anything, because they want to own it all.



It is better to take the full accountability and the full ownership of everything that you do, and build it better than they did; it's not the 60s anymore, and they are actually trying to screw us as hard and as often as they can. Not only is the information out there, but there are also things like EZ-calculators where you can input some information into a program created by an actual smart-person that will tell you much of what you need to know, or what kinds of power/gearing/fluids or whatever you need to do whatever it is that you're trying to do.

I have to think these days automotive engineers are bound by bean counters and lawyers... we all know of things that could be designed and done a lot better however it either coasts too much, lasts too long, doesnt last long enough, or creates a potential lawsuit if it fails...



a similar thought is for us northerners icy sidewalks and can someone succesfully sue you if they fall on your icy sidewalk...


the general consensus is if a business doesnt touch their sidewalks.. ie leaves a layer of ice on the bottom covered by a few inches of snow untouched and someone busts their noggin that the suit might gain traction for "negligence"... if said business cleared the snow off the top and salted the ice.. even though the ice may be way too thick for the salt to melt it..someone falls.. a good faith attempt was made to clear the walk and the suit gets thrown out..



reality is that its Much easier to walk on a couple inches of snow on top of the ice than it is on the half melting ice.. yet you are expected to make it worse for people simply to make it less likely you get sued....
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Old 10-14-2024, 08:22 AM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeMargeInBaja View Post
"Trans or diff for increased max speed?"
.
Neither.
Your factory engineer team designed that combination for safety and longevity.
.
Let us speculate:
a -- change the axle ratio for higher speed automatically reduces two essentials -- startability and gradability.
Less startability stresses your transmission; you will see a sharp decline in fluid life because the innerds are slipping more... as they are designed to do.
.
Less gradability leads to a sharp decline in your ability to maintain a safe speed while climbing hills.
And it doesn't have to be a day in the Rocky Mountains, you may notice significant slowing just approaching a freeway overpass.
.
Your engine is simply under-powered to accomplish your desires.
Could you alter its components, so it produces more torque?
Sure... with a corresponding reduction in longevity in other areas.
Your transmission can last for decades with its factory settings, or you can plan on investing in repeated re-builds while you camp in the repair-shop parking-lot.
.
Could you reinforce your drivetrain, engineer each component such as U-joints, driveshaft, transmission?
With enough money.
And after something breaks, you could BuildItBackBetter© by throwing parts at it.
More fun than it sounds.
.
.
b)
I think you have the wrong rig.
I think a highway bus is factory engineered to accomplish your Go! Quicker! goals.
.
And that begs the question:
* Why the rush?
There's no rush per se, however, I can't go up hills faster than 45mph and I hold up traffic. I've lived in this skoolie for 5 years, but will be driving coast to coast soon. 55mph on the highway pedal to the metal isn't great.
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Old 10-16-2024, 12:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I have to think these days automotive engineers are bound by bean counters and lawyers... we all know of things that could be designed and done a lot better however it either coasts too much, lasts too long, doesnt last long enough, or creates a potential lawsuit if it fails...

a similar thought is for us northerners icy sidewalks and can someone succesfully sue you if they fall on your icy sidewalk...

the general consensus is if a business doesnt touch their sidewalks.. ie leaves a layer of ice on the bottom covered by a few inches of snow untouched and someone busts their noggin that the suit might gain traction for "negligence"... if said business cleared the snow off the top and salted the ice.. even though the ice may be way too thick for the salt to melt it..someone falls.. a good faith attempt was made to clear the walk and the suit gets thrown out..

reality is that its Much easier to walk on a couple inches of snow on top of the ice than it is on the half melting ice.. yet you are expected to make it worse for people simply to make it less likely you get sued....

Apple has been caught designing their products so that heat-sensitive Integrated Circuit components are placed directly on top of things like the on-board power-supplies (which generate a ton of heat), Apple and Samsung and other brands of cell phone have been caught changing the way their older phones handle memory so as to make the device seem slower to the people using it, everything these days is going to some kind of Software-As-A-Service model, or something like Sales-As-A-Service, and everything else is being designed to be consumed and replaced instead of having easily-replaceable parts--even when the "consumable" products wind up being much more complicated or less logical than longer-lasting products with discrete components that are more logical and easier to swap out. This is essentially the largest companies in the world trying to look for change in the couch cushions by robbing customers instead of building better things in better ways.
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Old 10-16-2024, 07:24 AM   #18
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 19,833
Year: 1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
Apple has been caught designing their products so that heat-sensitive Integrated Circuit components are placed directly on top of things like the on-board power-supplies (which generate a ton of heat), Apple and Samsung and other brands of cell phone have been caught changing the way their older phones handle memory so as to make the device seem slower to the people using it, everything these days is going to some kind of Software-As-A-Service model, or something like Sales-As-A-Service, and everything else is being designed to be consumed and replaced instead of having easily-replaceable parts--even when the "consumable" products wind up being much more complicated or less logical than longer-lasting products with discrete components that are more logical and easier to swap out. This is essentially the largest companies in the world trying to look for change in the couch cushions by robbing customers instead of building better things in better ways.

the software piece i 100% agree with... apple knew they were slowing down the old phones.. the hardware in the routers and other devices was claimed by engineers in various forums to be due to board real estate.. smaller board = lower cost to make (claimed).. others claimed the chips were stacked on purpose so the radio transmitter would burn up prematurely...
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Old 10-16-2024, 07:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB24 View Post
There's no rush per se, however, I can't go up hills faster than 45mph and I hold up traffic. I've lived in this skoolie for 5 years, but will be driving coast to coast soon. 55mph on the highway pedal to the metal isn't great.



gearing gives you one or the other.. unless you put in a LOT of gears and plan to downshift a lot...


if oyu max out at 55 now at max RPM.. but still cant climb a hill any faster than 45 (and you want to climb faster)... then you are gearbound at the top and horsepower/torque bound at the bottom...


re-gearing taller or installing overdrive will net you higher potential top speed (if your engine is powerful enough).. but it wont net you any more climbing power...


if you install overdrive such that you can reach a top speed you like and the RPM is too low for comfort at that top speed then potentially you could re-gear down a bit.. lowering your max top speed and also giving you more torque on the lower end depending on your ratios...


lower overall gearing gives you more pulling power but lower top speed..
taller overall gearing gives you less pulling power but higher top speed..


in the case of my red bus.. its perfect happy spot is where its at now..
with a 1:1 transmission in its current form it would max at 55 (2700 RPM)..
once in 6th gear it runs 65 at 1900-1950 or so RPM.. 5th it gives me that 2100-2200 RPM at 65.. for my engne and bus this is a perfect combo..



to get there i had to install a new trnasmisison and re-gear the rear.. and I also souped up the motor...



the more the merrier when it comes to gears.. semi trucks run lots of gears.. 10,13, or even 18... most of them their top gears are only good for travelling light on flat ground.. but with that many gears they can shift to the best gear for whateber their terrain is... yes it can be a lot of shifting up and down and its not auto (they have autos now on semis.. I have never driven one)...



so one choice youd have is going 10 speed manual.. (they make them for SAE2 applications).. where you have a couple overdrive gears...



you could install a 5 or 6 speed allison.. (I dont even mess with 5.. the only time i tell people to mess with 5 speed allsons is if they get a good deal on a used working pull which saves them lots of $$)...



I think in your case you may need a multi faceted approach.. I know i did..
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Old 10-16-2024, 01:48 PM   #20
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the software piece i 100% agree with... apple knew they were slowing down the old phones.. the hardware in the routers and other devices was claimed by engineers in various forums to be due to board real estate.. smaller board = lower cost to make (claimed).. others claimed the chips were stacked on purpose so the radio transmitter would burn up prematurely...

I 100% know that the 5N router I bought from Crapple was designed to fail, as looking at the board, it would have made more sense and kept the signal-paths shorter to have the heat-sensitive IC's stacked in a different corner, which would have been further away from the primary heat-generating components. So unless there was some kind of electromagnetic reason that I couldn't see or wasn't aware of, they were engineered to fail.



While I'm not an electronic-engineering specialist, I've been playing with computers and electronics since the late '80s, I've been an audio and recording engineer live and in the studio, and I was a quasi-electronics specialist on a submarine... I know a few things about electronics, and what I don't know I can usually figure out if I sit and think about it for a while. And I've fixed cell-phones and done component-level repair on laptops in addition to all the other usual kinds of stuff like working on cars and building my own circuits for various things. I'm also a licensed HAM radio operator, so there's really nothing in a wifi router that is exceptionally outside of my ability.
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