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Old 03-21-2017, 08:02 AM   #1
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More gauges!

I feel blind driving my bus. I'm not pushing it yet so I'm not too worried...yet. My family plans on some long hauls, including some mountain traversals. So, what gauges do you use? I was thinking of something like this:
GlowShift 3in1 Black Exhaust Temp and Digital Boost and Temperature Gauge

They have other ones where the analog needle is temp or boost, but I feel like egt's are the most important. I was going to hook the temp into the transmission some how?

Boost? Why do I care in my 1999 Cummins 5.9L Bluebird? I think I heard somewhere that fuel pressure is also very important? Especially with the Cummins?

Wanna gauge it up and I am looking for your expertise. What would you suggest/avoid? I'm really looking to be a more informed driver/avoid huge bills because I didn't know I am melting my cylinders.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:31 AM   #2
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THIS is what I want my dash to look like-




Trans temp and pyrometer are on my to-do list for sure.



As it stands I'm lucky to have MOST of my dash working lol.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:42 AM   #3
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Gauges I would have on your bus and reasons for them.

1. Fuel supply pressure - Lift pumps on isb cummins are notoriously weak and notorious for failure. Low/no fuel pressure leads to injection pump failure=$$$.

2. Pyrometer - Used to monitor exhaust temp. Can tell if you're pushing too hard and need to back off, especially if engine is turned up.

3. Tranny Fluid Temp (automatic only) - Monitor this so you don't burn up the trans. Especially likely with an at545 and spirited driving.

Those 3 are a must if I owned it. Boost is optional to me, really only used for diagnostics/bragging rights.

I'd also want engine oil temp but it's not vital. I use it to gauge engine load/in case of rapid coolant loss. You'll see the engine oil increase rapidly if you lose a lower radiator hose, sometimes without even a wiggle on the coolant temp gauge.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:47 AM   #4
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"1. Fuel supply pressure - Lift pumps on isb cummins are notoriously weak and notorious for failure. Low/no fuel pressure leads to injection pump failure=$$$.
"

That is exactly what I think happened to my 1999 Dodge dually. I had to replace my injection pump. That one hurt.

So, is there a brand you guys would suggest for gauges? Or does it really matter?
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:51 AM   #5
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https://www.summitracing.com/search/.../fuel-pressure

Stewart Warners.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:58 AM   #6
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what they said..............

i just added gauges to mine. i didnt get the fuel pressure and now i kinda regret it. boost gauge may have been nice too.

i also added a tach which my bus did not have. the tach was well worth the $10 it cost. the other 2 gauges were much more!



if you mount them like i did. pass on the digital stuff. i cant see the numbers from the seat. just the top of the gauge where the needle is.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:19 AM   #7
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Great info guys/gals!
Did a little searching. Do these numbers sound right?

So Pyro: 1300 max?
Fuel pressure: 5-9?
Transmission temperature: less than 200?
Boost: less than 30psi?

Do these numbers sound right?
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:22 AM   #8
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I love those chromed out Pete dashes!..

though im going the opposite of you guys with mine.. Think Tesla dash..

in a heavy bus i might like to have a brake temperature Gauge..
for winter driving, outside air temp, and road surface teperature gauge

if you have an 'E' engine a LOT of cool gauges are built into your computer...

Turbo Boost PSI
Intake air temp (pre turbo)
Engine oil Temp
engine load %
cruise set speed

in a HEUI engine, the computer gives you your HEUI info
HPOP pressure
COmmanded ICP
actual ICP

theres a bunch of other stuff the computer gives you as well.. on our busses we are following generally the J1587 protocol stack on top of the J1708 physical.

your normal 5 Navistar gauges (if your cluster is flaky), can be read from the computer.

MPH
RPM
Water temp
Oil P
Voltage

-Christopher
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #9
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I do have:
"Fuel, MPH, RPM, Water temp, Oil Pressure, & Voltage"
That is all on a switch on the dash. Multi-gauge kind of setup.

They also installed a mechanical amp meter.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MasterMerck View Post
Great info guys/gals!
Did a little searching. Do these numbers sound right?

So Pyro: 1300 max?
Fuel pressure: 5-9?
Transmission temperature: less than 200?
Boost: less than 30psi?

Do these numbers sound right?
i've seen my pyro go to 1300*. they can get hot fast and cool fast, its sustained temps that will damage. my gauge is 1500*.
normal operating on a trans is 180-200, the gauge goes up to 260.

i don't have a boost gauge, but as i understand, the factory wastegate is 40ish psi? when i had my AFC off, the air compressor needed 60 psi to move the fuel foot. i think those diesels turbos can make some pressure.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:53 AM   #11
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wow 40 PSI, my 444E makes 15. and thats normal I guess... no real tuning available for the 444E..
-Christopher
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:05 AM   #12
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Isspro makes reliable gauges, some versions are made in the USA so you'll have to investigate further if you're interested in that stuff.

Autometer has more of a variety of backing and needles and stuff if you're going for a specific look. They also have gauges that are made in the USA.

Marshall instruments is another mfg that I've used that worked well. Their gauges are cheaper then the other two but the quality is good. Not sure where they're made.

Stewart warner is a good gauge as well.

Isspro or stewart warner is usually what's found in most of your medium duty stuff.

Ranges?

Fuel pressure should be at least to 20 psi. While running, it shouldn't drop below 5 psi, and it should never go over 20 psi.

Pyro should have at least 1500*F as the max. Higher won't hurt any.

Trans temp you want 100*F and anywhere up to 300-400 *F as the range.

Oil temp is the same range as trans temp.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I love those chromed out Pete dashes!..
if you have an 'E' engine a LOT of cool gauges are built into your computer...

Turbo Boost PSI
Intake air temp (pre turbo)
Engine oil Temp
engine load %
cruise set speed
On a isb cummins(what he has), the intake air temp sensor is in the intake manifold(POST turbo and intercooler) IDK why they would ever need pre turbo temps.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:17 AM   #14
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On a isb cummins(what he has), the intake air temp sensor is in the intake manifold(POST turbo and intercooler) IDK why they would ever need pre turbo temps.
dont ask me either. ..its International.. supposedly the sensor is pre-turbo on the 444E at least.. I havent physically gone to locate it yet though to be sure..
-Christopher
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:21 AM   #15
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EastcoastCB, That dash looks cool, but unless the driver knows what he's looking at it's pretty much useless, and with how much gauges cost that look is expensive as f***. Certain fleets are actually just giving drivers a tach, speedometer, volts, and AIR psi. Their thoughts are that the less the driver has to be distracted by, the better chance they'll keep it on the road.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:28 AM   #16
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dont ask me either. ..its International.. supposedly the sensor is pre-turbo on the 444E at least.. I havent physically gone to locate it yet though to be sure..
-Christopher
They did that on a t444e to decide whether or not to put the engine into it's warmup cycle(ebp valve shut, retarded timing, high idle).
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:51 PM   #17
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They did that on a t444e to decide whether or not to put the engine into it's warmup cycle(ebp valve shut, retarded timing, high idle).

makes sense there.. get air and coolant reading.. did all the 444E's have the EBPV? I havent been able to locate it on mine.. though seeing anything under the turbo is a bit hard to see..

eventually i'll have to tear that all apart i have a Minor oil leak back there.. so i'll know for sure if i have one... I thought it would be noticeable to hear it or such but I dont.. even when I had the bus in ohio in the coldest spell we had ... it idled higher and the ICP command was higher but otherwise it didnt sound any different..
-Christopher
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:31 PM   #18
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The more information you have, the less chance of a nasty surprise if something starts to go bad. Most things give you warning before they fail, and good gauges are the best way to monitor their vital signs. In addition to the basic eleven gauges in front of me, I have nine more in the engine room. I'm buying Speedhut gauges for replacements - they're not too expensive, very nice quality, made to order in USA, and they sorta-match my original Teleflex gauges. For me the coolant temperature gauge is the single most important one of them all, so that was the first I replaced with a full-sweep Speedhut and mounted it front and center. I really don't like quarter-sweep gauges, and the only ones I'll have left will be for fuel and voltage.

John
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:42 PM   #19
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I wish navistar hadn't changed the gauge scales in the later units.. my carpenter bushas a full sweep oil P gauge 0-100 and the temp is 1/4 sweep 100-230. In the latter bus the oil p is 1/4 sweep 0-100 and temp is 1/4 sweep 140-280, reality is you should never get a 444e higher than 230.. so why do I care that the gauge scales to 280.. I'm already in real danger at 220 and alarms are ringing by 230.. I should already be in evasive action to cool it down rand shut it down by that point..

Fortunately I have my digital tablet to read me exact numbers so I don't rely on stock gauges .
Christopher
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:28 PM   #20
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EastcoastCB, That dash looks cool, but unless the driver knows what he's looking at it's pretty much useless, and with how much gauges cost that look is expensive as f***. Certain fleets are actually just giving drivers a tach, speedometer, volts, and AIR psi. Their thoughts are that the less the driver has to be distracted by, the better chance they'll keep it on the road.
Pshhhhh!
You must not be a REAL trucker!
Callin that candy dash chrome useless!! Gah!

Useful or not, customized fancy class 8 stuff is where its AT!
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