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Old 04-12-2021, 03:58 PM   #1
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Albuquerque area
Posts: 4
Year: 1964
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: Cummins NHH 220
NH 220 Oil viscosity question

Hello, I recently got my hands on an operators manual for my 1964 Crowns NH 220 engine and have been going through it doing basic maintenance, starting with filters and fluids. I almost immediately ran into a problem when the manual called for SAE NO. 20 "when ambient temperature is 32į F. to 90į F" is there a modern equivalent to this, or one you guys would recommend? I am having trouble finding anything of this viscosity online. Thanks!

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Old 04-12-2021, 04:07 PM   #2
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Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,359
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
I would check with your nearest rest home for an old Cummins mechanic. No telling what he will tell you We are using 15w-40 in my sonís NH 220.
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Old 04-12-2021, 05:16 PM   #3
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 393
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon View Post
I would check with your nearest rest home for an old Cummins mechanic. No telling what he will tell you We are using 15w-40 in my son’s NH 220.
What he says. Crown manuals are mostly a myth. They were comprised of 3-ring binders with the equipment used on that build included the manufacturers own manuals. Bendix Air, Rockwell axles, Fuller transmission, Cummins, or Hall Scott for that era(maybe), Ross Cam and lever for steering, etc, etc. You need to contact the manufacturers for old manuals and compile your own 3-ring binder of installed components. Crown DID have specific and purpose built by them certain body and structural parts that are only available now in scrap yards and off hangar queen parts buses.

Most any of the Cummins engines should be fine using modern 15-40 heavy duty diesel rated oil.

NOT ANY Detroit Diesel 6-71's though. They MUST use the CF2 rated straight 40wt mineral oil..... but you don't have that problem.

You should also be lining up sources for parts specific to that 220 and bear in mind the NH means it's a Naturally aspirated (non-turbo) 220hp HORIZONTAL (80 degree) mounted installation. This used some different internal parts like the water pump, and oil pump along with extra efforts made to drain the oil properly back to the pan. Probably more I'm not aware of. I'm sure you can't use just any old 220 engine parts without making REAL sure they work for the horizontal installation. That could cause catastrophic failures.

A mechanic who understands the nuances will save you a boat load of trouble and expenses.

You should seriously look around for a friendly short job machine shop willing to work with you to fabricate custom parts for you. I've heard of several guys needing the water pump shaft custom machined due to complete lack of any parts available anymore. I'm sure there are other parts you may need to consider having made. A word to the wise.

You are most definitely dealing with a Vintage vehicle where most of the easily available parts are Long Gone. Feel free to upgrade and even change as you see fit to use modern replacements where you can do that. Nothing really sacred about a "Stock Crown" build since they were totally custom built and used whatever the customer wanted, thus the many differences in Crowns through the years in the installed components. All part of the Charm and Cool of owning a Crown. Welcome to the Club.
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Old 04-12-2021, 06:25 PM   #4
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Albuquerque area
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Year: 1964
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: Cummins NHH 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
What he says. Crown manuals are mostly a myth. They were comprised of 3-ring binders with the equipment used on that build included the manufacturers own manuals. Bendix Air, Rockwell axles, Fuller transmission, Cummins, or Hall Scott for that era(maybe), Ross Cam and lever for steering, etc, etc. You need to contact the manufacturers for old manuals and compile your own 3-ring binder of installed components. Crown DID have specific and purpose built by them certain body and structural parts that are only available now in scrap yards and off hangar queen parts buses.

Most any of the Cummins engines should be fine using modern 15-40 heavy duty diesel rated oil.

NOT ANY Detroit Diesel 6-71's though. They MUST use the CF2 rated straight 40wt mineral oil..... but you don't have that problem.

You should also be lining up sources for parts specific to that 220 and bear in mind the NH means it's a Naturally aspirated (non-turbo) 220hp HORIZONTAL (80 degree) mounted installation. This used some different internal parts like the water pump, and oil pump along with extra efforts made to drain the oil properly back to the pan. Probably more I'm not aware of. I'm sure you can't use just any old 220 engine parts without making REAL sure they work for the horizontal installation. That could cause catastrophic failures.

A mechanic who understands the nuances will save you a boat load of trouble and expenses.

You should seriously look around for a friendly short job machine shop willing to work with you to fabricate custom parts for you. I've heard of several guys needing the water pump shaft custom machined due to complete lack of any parts available anymore. I'm sure there are other parts you may need to consider having made. A word to the wise.

You are most definitely dealing with a Vintage vehicle where most of the easily available parts are Long Gone. Feel free to upgrade and even change as you see fit to use modern replacements where you can do that. Nothing really sacred about a "Stock Crown" build since they were totally custom built and used whatever the customer wanted, thus the many differences in Crowns through the years in the installed components. All part of the Charm and Cool of owning a Crown. Welcome to the Club.
Thanks for the help! I will use 15-40 then, I had a hunch that was the right stuff to go with. I am already documenting what needs to be replaced and if its possible to buy still. The answer is mostly no, I actually do have a machine shop willing to work with me, as far as keeping the bus stock, its far from, from what I can tell the drive train is the most original part. I would like to keep that 220 going as long as possible since when things go wrong with it its going to be a lot of work, that why I am going of the manual word by word (this is a Cummins Manual BTW), but per your advice I will take it with a grain of salt. Thanks again
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Old 04-12-2021, 06:46 PM   #5
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 393
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
I've attached a small text file I got somewhere with good info on the various Cummins horizontal engines used by Crown. I thought that they were NHH 220 and the file confirms that. The last H is the horizontal modification. NH 220's would be used in a truck in an upright normal position. I've never been real clear on the Cummins model nomenclature or what the second H was for. I used to know but obviously forgotten. Take your time and gather info and suspect everything you're told until you can compile your own experience validated data trove. Then you'll be confident in how to take care of your Crown. Try posting pics when you can.
Attached Files
File Type: txt Crown_Cummins_engines_specs.txt (1.2 KB, 4 views)
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Old 04-12-2021, 07:45 PM   #6
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Albuquerque area
Posts: 4
Year: 1964
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: Cummins NHH 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
I've attached a small text file I got somewhere with good info on the various Cummins horizontal engines used by Crown. I thought that they were NHH 220 and the file confirms that. The last H is the horizontal modification. NH 220's would be used in a truck in an upright normal position. I've never been real clear on the Cummins model nomenclature or what the second H was for. I used to know but obviously forgotten. Take your time and gather info and suspect everything you're told until you can compile your own experience validated data trove. Then you'll be confident in how to take care of your Crown. Try posting pics when you can.
Thanks for the info, I had known that the last H stands for horizontal, and had added it to the little bio that displays on your forum posts. I will take pictures soon although not much has changed aesthetically since we bought it, I have been more focused on mechanical care/preventative stuff (fixing leaks, learning how everything was put together). When something visual changes I will definitely post some pictures! (original pictures are on the forum post made when we bought it I believe, think that is still on this profile)
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Old 04-13-2021, 08:44 AM   #7
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 546
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Some info should you ever re-power your Crown:
For some reason my "new Crown" spun a main bearing not many miles after getting it. It was cheaper to replace the engine than repair it. I used a normal Cummins Big Cam 1 as the replacement. When researching what parts were different I found out that Cummins used only one block casting (based on the Cummins parts book) for the big cam engines (back in the mechanical engine days). The oil pan and oil pump are different, as well as the compressor. We re-used the intake and exhaust manifolds and oil cooler as the original engine was a Big Cam III. The replacement engine came with the Jake Brake so that was a bonus. I had the fuel pump from the original engine gone through and re-calibrated for the Big Cam 400 since the pump from the replacement engine was questionable (although the replacement engine ran with it). If you re-power with a big cam someday make sure you use a transmission capable of the torque of the engine you use.
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Old 04-13-2021, 08:55 AM   #8
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Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,359
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
What is needed to go from the NHH 220 to the 855 block as far as a conversion?
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