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Old 09-24-2014, 01:43 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

hey everybody, this forum has been very helpful and now Ive got some questions. i have never worked on such a big engine or a diesel to boot.
I have the 143 Motor, NHH 220 with the Eaton-Fuller 10spd under a 72 Crown Supercoach.
it sat parked for a year before i got her, and i noticed the oil marks on the engine, trans, and diff, is this normal?







this is the gauge cluster after a drive on the highway, anything look out of the ordinary?



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Old 09-24-2014, 03:44 PM   #2
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Oil marks look to be just the seals weeping. After so many years the seals on everything will start to get old and weep a little bit of fluid like that. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have a good sized puddle of fluid underneath. Just keep all the fluids topped off. From the gauges it looks like your alternator isn't charging, or the gauge is junk. Have somebody test it out to be sure or you might end up stranded next time you need to start it. Your water temp looks a little low too but you never said how far you drove it. I wouldn't worry about it, just get the alternator checked for sure.
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:57 PM   #3
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Some guys would pay to have such minimal oil leaks.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #4
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

OH THOSE ARE HORRIBLE OIL LEAKS. I will take that bus off your hands for you so you don't have to deal with it.

Don't fret those. Now show some pic's of the rest of the bus!
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Old 09-25-2014, 12:05 PM   #5
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Thanks guys, the gauge cluster picture was after a 5 min warmup, 5 min surface streets then 5 min on the highway doing 55.
The alternator is a leese Neville and it only puts out 14v above 1k Rpms, is that acceptable?

After buying this critter I went down to drive it home, we'll the darn thing would not start after such a perfect test drive a week earlier. I charged the batteries and started checking the usual stuff, fluids good, fuel in tank, starter getting juice, wires have continuity, then the batteries. I put the multimeter between the battery post and the pos lead, they had a parasitic draw of .04 amps and 1.04 volts.
Long story shortened slightly, the pos wire to the fuel relay on the pump was grounded to the frame. Not sure where or how it just has continuity to the frame somewhere along the run from the relay to the ignition up front.
I put in a jumper from the battery to the relay and disconnected the old wire, Vroom it clattered to life! And made it the 45 Minuit drive to my house.






[url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/vanopolis/15152025868/]

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Old 09-25-2014, 12:35 PM   #6
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Glad you made it.

With that tire on the front, it is just BEGGING to put VW swooped stripes on the front and a tire cover with the crown logo inside a circle VW-esque.
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Old 09-25-2014, 05:09 PM   #7
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

I'm thinking my dirtbike would fit nicely in that tires place...... Spares are overrated right?
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:13 PM   #8
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

I like it as a crumple zone. The one thing that scares me most about a flatnose is getting a deer in my lap while driving at night.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:37 PM   #9
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Is it 14v from that gauge or 14v from a voltmeter? I've seen other alternators do that, but at idle after driving for 15 minutes, you should have a minimum of 12.6 volts which is full battery voltage. The fact that the gauge was reading 10.5 shows that either the gauge isn't reading right, the alternator didn't charge during the trip, or that you have some sort of load on the system. I seen that and took a guess and assumed that the alternator wasn't charging.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:35 PM   #10
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Get the alternator check first

The voltage from an alternator only must exceed the battery voltage. There is a problem with the alternator or some wiring is not good. Crown buses use a relay which operates the starter solenoid. Use a multimeter and check for poor connections. A fully charged battery is 12.6 volts and a battery 75% discharged will show 12 volts. Frank
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:53 AM   #11
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Re: Get the alternator check first

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank-id
The voltage from an alternator only must exceed the battery voltage. There is a problem with the alternator or some wiring is not good. Crown buses use a relay which operates the starter solenoid. Use a multimeter and check for poor connections. A fully charged battery is 12.6 volts and a battery 75% discharged will show 12 volts. Frank
You're correct, But certain alternators have very poor low rpm performance. Thus they don't produce, or produce very little power at idle (It seems that most high output alternators are like that for some reason). In these instances you won't see 14 volts with the engine idling.

Verify that the gauge is reading correctly and we will go from there.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:42 AM   #12
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Ok, I've got a situation. The previous owner covered the engine hatch with ply and flooring, and I would have to tear everything up to get to the hatch. Is it worth the hassle to make the hatch useable? Will I ever need to get at the top of the engine? there isn't much on top of this motor, I have noticed some configurations have a starter and other bits on top of the engine but mine has nothing but the side of the engine casting facing skyward.
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:43 PM   #13
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

You will need access if you don't have it. If you cut open the hatch now, you will never need it. --Murphy
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:53 AM   #14
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

I can't find a primer for the fuel system, it's got a PT fuel pump (mechanical everything) I have a new filter and would like to slap it in there.
Also leaking some fuel around an injector, 3 nuts and a spring all stacked up on the injector and didn't want to tighten it up unless that was the right choice.....?

When I come to a stop once in a while the engine idle drops to 400rpms and tries to die, if I blip the throttle it recovers. Could this be caused by the fuel leaking and or old fuel filter?

Taking her to the shop tomorrow for an alternator test, then to Betts truck shop here in PDX for shocks, bushings, bearings and leafspring repair.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:35 AM   #15
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

There might not be a primer pump on there. If there isn't, find a way to plug the center hole of the fuel filter and fill it full using a jug. Make sure you plug the center hole because that is where the filtered fuel comes out of. Then swap the filters, start it up, and run it at high idle. As for the injector leaking, take a picture of what you're talking about because the injector Is under the valve cover, so I don't think that is what you are seeing. The engine idle could be because of the leak. Does it seem to misfire when it does it? or is it just low idle? Either way, we need to fix the leak first and then trouble shoot from there.
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Old 11-10-2014, 01:47 PM   #16
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

It seems to idle fine at startup, 500rpms. Then after a bit of driving the idle is just too low to keep running without some throttle finesse.
The bus is at the shop for a week to have the broken leafspring repaired, new shocks/bushings, bearings and seals. I'll try to dig up a photo of the "injector" I'm looking at, It's where the fuel line goes into the head.
The new fuel filter made it run better and greatly improved throttle response.
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:06 PM   #17
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

as for the low rpm. with engine temp above 140 deg. F you can adjust idle by removing plug out of rear of fuel pump housing the fuel will run out . take a small screwdriver and turn screw 2 clicks or about 1/8 turn .re-install plug start let run for a few minutes.check idle rpm's should be 550 rpm .if after setting idle if still tries to stall you can adjust throttle leakage. engine must be at 170 deg f or higher. this can be done by loosing the nut at throttle shaft the one at rear of shaft. start engine turn screw till rpm starts to rise no more than 25 rpm. tighten screw.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:54 AM   #18
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

Excellent! Thanks for the procedure on the idle adjustment, I found the "cone" your talking about on the fuel pump and it's nice to know how far to turn that screw.
The screen filter with the slotted top in the top of the fuel pump will not come out, I got a big flat head in there with a wrench on it. Not sure if I could have put more force into it without doing damage, any ideas on getting at that filter?
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Old 11-11-2014, 01:39 AM   #19
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions


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Old 11-11-2014, 06:21 PM   #20
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Re: NHH 220 pancake in Crown coach questions

that was a problem with those pumps. corrosion easy to twist off screw. no easy cure don't heat it or o rings on throttle shaft will leak. not many people rebuild those pumps can be expensive. i would idle up a little an put up with drupe with the 10 speed you wont notice a few extra rpm s at idle or shifts
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