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12-10-2019, 08:45 AM
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#21
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo
Steering clear of the politics and sticking to what I can do something about....
I wish the people that read/contribute to threads like this would also contribute to the threads where people advocate dumping (of ANY kind), burying their poo, and so forth.
As someone who has spent a great deal of time on BLM/NFS managed land, I don't blame them one bit for closing areas. I am ashamed to be a human when I see what we do to these areas. I'm certainly not talking about neat little fire rings, hiking trails and two-track roads. Campers - like you and me - leave a tremendous mess behind. Broken glass, bottles, cans, garbage of all sorts, stinky ground (I assume dumping something), and everything else. On top of that, many of us show up and make as much noise as possible. In my opinion, that noise pollution is nearly as bad as the garbage 'pollution'.
I wonder if the position of the managers would change if we changed and really "cared" for these lands??
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There are many good comments here but I'll single this one out to say:
Thank you!
Picketwire Canyon is a neat little gem of a place: in the 90's it was still part of the US Army's Pinon Canyon Maneuver area. The army did a great job of protecting one of the oldest Spanish settlement cemetery's in CO, Indian sites, dinosaur tracks etc.
Protection strategy was easy: keep everybody the f@ck out! Highly effective too!
I got to tour the area several times in the course of it's being turned over to the NPS (although the actual management would be done by the USFS Comanche district)
Under public land management it only took ten years before all the spanish grave stones were stolen, numerous other artifacts damaged, defaced, defiled...
I knew this would happen -- but I never guessed it would happen sooo fast...
If it's public land in perpetuity, THEN the next generation has as much right to know it will be there for their grandchildren as YOU have any right to see it now...
What I'd like to see (and the tech already exists!) is especially for Wilderness areas is a jamming of all cell & satellite signal technology. A media/communication black-out zone if you will. If YOU need to stay "connected" then you don't need to be in the wilderness -- period.
"Leave No Trace" is an ethic VERY few of us follow...
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12-10-2019, 02:53 PM
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#22
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Foot of the siskiyou mountains Oregon.
Posts: 222
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas / international
Chassis: International
Engine: Dt 360/ spicer 5 speed
Rated Cap: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
The "Rainbow family" are a GOOD reason to have regulations and enforcement. Those folks make a huge mess and contribute nothing.
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Generally, i can understand what would lead you to this opinion. there are many different colors to the rainbow though and to lump them all together wouldn't be accurate or fair.
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12-10-2019, 02:58 PM
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#23
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonEagle
Generally, i can understand what would lead you to this opinion. there are many different colors to the rainbow though and to lump them all together wouldn't be accurate or fair.
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Long time deadhead but the rainbow family is just not my scene. Seems totally irresponsible and too many local 15 YO girls run off with them every february and get strung out on dope. They burned down significant portions of the forest at least twice in the last twenty years. I'm talking about the regional love-in every feb at Buck Lake.
There's a HUGE meth subculture that's sprung up from it in the boonies of Ocala. I think their anarchistic approach and not weeding out the meth heads has made them a group to avoid. I'm sure there are great folks involved- especially out west. But not so much here in my backyard.
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12-10-2019, 03:04 PM
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#24
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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There were a lot of deadheads in Oregon too. J Garcia and company used to stay and party in Eugene for a day or two whenever they could. I don't think that the meth subculture is as huge as it used to be, but it's still way too big.
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12-10-2019, 05:40 PM
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#25
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Long time deadhead but the rainbow family is just not my scene. Seems totally irresponsible and too many local 15 YO girls run off with them every february and get strung out on dope. They burned down significant portions of the forest at least twice in the last twenty years. I'm talking about the regional love-in every feb at Buck Lake.
There's a HUGE meth subculture that's sprung up from it in the boonies of Ocala. I think their anarchistic approach and not weeding out the meth heads has made them a group to avoid. I'm sure there are great folks involved- especially out west. But not so much here in my backyard.
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The "Rainbow Family" is very loosely defined just like "Deadheads". Anyone can say they are a "Rainbow" or a "Deadhead".
The "Regional" Rainbow Gatherings such as Ocala are not supported by most Rainbows. They are usually a band of alcoholics with nothing that find benefit in calling their lose hobo camp a "Rainbow Gathering".
I have seen a good amount of problems with regional Rainbow gathering and messes left behind. Same kind of problem and mess as the "Deadheads" used to make as they came thru on tour.
The one National yearly Rainbow Gathering has some very dedicated members who do a great job of cleaning up. I have seen many of the sites afterwards. Personally I find it a big contribution to our country and state of freedom that people are willing to take a stand and gather in support of our first amendment. Beats the hell out of buying a $200. Phish ticket.
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12-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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#26
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACamper
The "Rainbow Family" is very loosely defined just like "Deadheads". Anyone can say they are a "Rainbow" or a "Deadhead".
The "Regional" Rainbow Gatherings such as Ocala are not supported by most Rainbows. They are usually a band of alcoholics with nothing that find benefit in calling their lose hobo camp a "Rainbow Gathering".
I have seen a good amount of problems with regional Rainbow gathering and messes left behind. Same kind of problem and mess as the "Deadheads" used to make as they came thru on tour.
I'm not a fan of this culture of expensive outings and it seems at least partially fueled by social media. Folks pay BIG money to go take selfies and make REALLY crappy cellphone videos of bands. To me its just depressing.
The one National yearly Rainbow Gathering has some very dedicated members who do a great job of cleaning up. I have seen many of the sites afterwards. Personally I find it a big contribution to our country and state of freedom that people are willing to take a stand and gather in support of our first amendment. Beats the hell out of buying a $200. Phish ticket.
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Oh, totally. I'm no custie. I was borderline on not buying REAL Grateful Dead tickets in 95 cause they were $30. lol
I'd not pay a dollar to watch Mayer do jerry impersonations on jerry's guitar stolen by the band from its maker.
I've heard good stuff about the big gatherings out west. But here in FL you wanna steer far clear of any "local rainbows".
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12-10-2019, 06:24 PM
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#27
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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Meth ruins everything. Here in this small county seat town, the weekly newspaper publishes mug shots of everybody that's ended up in the county jail over the previous week, for anything, domestic violence is quite common, getting worse from there on down. There's usually no more than one mugshot a week in which you can't see the effects of meth on their faces; sometimes there are none.
The paper has been doing this for a while. I think it has probably helped quite a bit. I think there's less meth around here than there used to be, but I am sure that anyone who wants some will find it.
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12-10-2019, 06:29 PM
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#28
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
Meth ruins everything. Here in this small county seat town, the weekly newspaper publishes mug shots of everybody that's ended up in the county jail over the previous week, for anything, domestic violence is quite common, getting worse from there on down. There's usually no more than one mugshot a week in which you can't see the effects of meth on their faces; sometimes there are none.
The paper has been doing this for a while. I think it has probably helped quite a bit. I think there's less meth around here than there used to be, but I am sure that anyone who wants some will find it.
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I gave a girl a ride out to a "rainbow camp" one time in Ocala. They were cooking meth right there in a tent. A crazy skinny jesus looking guy came out in his underwear with his hands up screaming "we need dry ice to finish making dope". Never returned!
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12-10-2019, 06:39 PM
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#29
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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I'll bet they all thought that was really good stuff. Meth messes with one's mind, but if it wasn't for meth causing him to make highly erratic decisions after about 1942, Hitler might have won WW2.
Hitler was the first historically recorded speed freak, his doctor kept records, many of which survived for historians to read. So meth users today are following in Hitler's path. I wish more of them knew it, but most people don't care about history.
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12-11-2019, 12:22 PM
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#30
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Interesting history!
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12-11-2019, 01:10 PM
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#31
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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Yeah it is, the history they leave out of the schoolbooks is always the most interesting.
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12-11-2019, 04:05 PM
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#32
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
Yeah it is, the history they leave out of the schoolbooks is always the most interesting.
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I'm learning much of what was in the history books when I was in school was all total BS, and not true at all.
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12-11-2019, 04:31 PM
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#33
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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@o1marc, I have a post-graduate degree in history and have worked as a legal researcher specializing in aboriginal issues. I agree totally with your statement.
An good example of this problem is that a few decades ago when I was in high school, professional historians believed a lot of things that were not true, simply because governments routinely withheld complete information about sensitive subjects, particularly subjects like WW2, which happens to be one of my areas of special interest.
For example, it was only in the 1980s that the US Navy finally admitted that the old story that the US carrier fleet found the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway Island by accident was a cover story crafted to keep the Japanese from figuring out their top level codes had been cracked.
Of course, this announcement also opened up questions about exactly when the US Office of Naval Intelligence, the best funded US intelligence agency of the time, cracked the final level of the Japanese Enigma Codes.
The US steadfastly maintains that the ONI did not crack the Purple Code until after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but questions remain about why all 4 of the US carriers at Pearl Harbor were at sea December 7, 1941 on a secret exercise that as far as I know is still classified. It will take more than that to convince me.
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12-11-2019, 04:58 PM
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#34
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
@o1marc, I have a post-graduate degree in history and have worked as a legal researcher specializing in aboriginal issues. I agree totally with your statement.
An good example of this problem is that a few decades ago when I was in high school, professional historians believed a lot of things that were not true, simply because governments routinely withheld complete information about sensitive subjects, particularly subjects like WW2, which happens to be one of my areas of special interest.
For example, it was only in the 1980s that the US Navy finally admitted that the old story that the US carrier fleet found the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway Island by accident was a cover story crafted to keep the Japanese from figuring out their top level codes had been cracked.
Of course, this announcement also opened up questions about exactly when the US Office of Naval Intelligence, the best funded US intelligence agency of the time, cracked the final level of the Japanese Enigma Codes.
The US steadfastly maintains that the ONI did not crack the Purple Code until after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but questions remain about why all 4 of the US carriers at Pearl Harbor were at sea December 7, 1941 on a secret exercise that as far as I know is still classified. It will take more than that to convince me.
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Interesting. This falls in line with what I believe happened to Amelia Earhart. She was captured by the Japanese and the American knew it. Had they revealed the y knew it it would have notified the Japanese that we had broken their code and we didn't want that, so they buried Amelia under the carpet where she died in a jail cell. Columbus wasn't even close to being the one who discovered America.
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12-11-2019, 05:57 PM
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#35
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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Yeah, the ONI is implicated in that too. It's pretty obvious the ONI knew what happened to Amelia. They were already reading the lower levels of the Japanese Enigma Codes when Amelia went missing. The codes used by ordinary naval operations and routine diplomatic communications.
And the ONI apparently recognized Amelia's SOS broadcasts for what they were when no one else that heard her broadcasts apparently made it that far at the time. But the ONI was getting very big into SigInt and they willl have heard the Japanese response to the broadcasts, and what came next, which was that the Japanese came, recovered the Electra and took it away. I forget the name of the island, but a bunch of tracks, normally used for moving very heavy bombs or artillery shells were found on an island where there were never any Japanese military installations.
And there are several pieces of evidence that strongly suggest that the ONI sent an officer and a squad to Saipan, where the Japanese finally shot her, to disinter Amelia and dispose of her remains before they could provoke any inconvenient questons. A couple of the sailors on that detail eventually came forward and spoke up, but the powers that be still maintain their denial.
That period is still very murky; so many secrets to hide. There is an excellent documentary about this.The title escapes me at the moment. I hope this trend continues. I think we need less secrets rather than more, but I am not holding my breath.
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12-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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#36
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
but I think I may have recently uncovered an unprecedented conspiracy to reduce the population suddenly.
...all the new freezers I've been finding have R600A. That stuff is highly explosive, like having a bomb in your living space waiting for detonation.
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From this point it's not far to envisioning a giant conspiracy to significantly reduce the population of the Western US by causing people's freezers to explode at night. The attackers will probably use top secret EMP weapons fired from black helicopters to burn whole neighborhoods.
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Now that's just silly! They used keep the population under control with the standard toxic food additives found in processed foods on the grocery store shelves. Heard on the radio this year a story about the beginning of the FDA. A gov. "scientist" recruited a dozen or two poor people, had them sign contracts binding them, gave them a bit of $$$, shelter, food, drink, and "medical attention". They were "sheltered" in a gov. facility, if memory serves. He fed them increasing amounts of these food additives until they got ill, more ill, very ill, some died. Not a scientific standard accepted today, for sure! No "controls," and very controversial to continue to poison someone till they die! But their "contracts" demanded their co-operation under all circumstances. In the end, he told congress to ban these products, but it caused an outrage, and in the end, nothing was done and his "research" was swept under the rug. In the 1980s, the head of the DEA testified to congress that most foods on the grocery store shelves were more dangerous than smoking cannibus, according to government studies.
Oh, and then there's pesticides. Agent Orange on your Wheaties, anyone?
Now they (the gov'ment) figure they can make more cash off of the medical industry by keeping people sick, but keeping them alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACamper
Some spots by heavy populated areas did get some over use and abuse but the majority of the spots were far from cities and had light use. We have so much great public land in the US and have real access to very little of it these days. If you cannot park a vehicle anywhere you don't have real access.
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I agree. Near the city, some of the city-slickers treat the woods like the city streets. Some, city-folk and country folk, dump their garbage in the woods, because they can't afford (or don't want to pay) the landfill. Both exemplify why we need to get away from disposable packaging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo
I wish the people that read/contribute to threads like this would also contribute to the threads where people advocate dumping (of ANY kind), burying their poo, and so forth.
As someone who has spent a great deal of time on BLM/NFS managed land, I don't blame them one bit for closing areas. I am ashamed to be a human when I see what we do to these areas. I'm certainly not talking about neat little fire rings, hiking trails and two-track roads. Campers - like you and me - leave a tremendous mess behind. Broken glass, bottles, cans, garbage of all sorts, stinky ground (I assume dumping something), and everything else. On top of that, many of us show up and make as much noise as possible. In my opinion, that noise pollution is nearly as bad as the garbage 'pollution'.
I wonder if the position of the managers would change if we changed and really "cared" for these lands??
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What do you mean "advocate dumping"? Who does that? Or are you saying "burying my poo" is dumping? I do bury my poo in the woods. Six inches deep, covered with dirt. It turns to more dirt.
I camped just inside Cali's Sierra Nevada range on the west side two years ago while waiting for my stuff to arrive in S.F. The road was steep, and I stopped at the first roadside pullout with a view of Cali's central valley. Broken glass and bullet & shotgun shells everywhere. Bits of plastic from various different items, camping gear to snack-food bags.
As I do everywhere I camp in the woods, whether roadside boon-docking or backpacking in the wilderness, I picked up every little bit I could find around my campsite; in this case it was a 300'×300' area, and the little bits of garbage was enough to fill a 5-gallon bucket. Someone else always gets the big stuff. While hiking I always find and pick up single-use small drink-bottle tops, snack-bag corners torn off, and cigarette butts. Other stuff also, of course. The bits of garbage I imagine are lost by kids or adults not paying attention. The cig-butts are of course purposely tossed by those who don't even care about their own bodies, so trying to convince them to save the planet is basically pointless.
Noise pollution sucks. It's why I go to the woods. Last time I showed up in the deep woods at dusk and blasted music till the CD I put in while driving was done, the birds all squawked a pissed off sounding moan. They then did that randomly all night. Sorry! Another time though, I played a CD at dusk in the old-growth woods of Oregon that I got from Inkans I met in Greece, playing traditional Peruvian music and native Inkan music. The birds and the crickets and anything that sings at dusk all sang along in harmony and rhythm. It was so beautiful.
Don't get me started on generators. I've been known to stand outside an RV and scream at the occupants at 3:00AM, at a small festival, when every one else was silent. I was barely walking drunk, though. I just wanted to sleep without vibrating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
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then the SUV-Craze of the mid-80s till now happened... everyone went and bought a 4x4 and trekked across the country with zero knowledge and little respect... everyone went west because they watched it on TV. and later the internet.... SUVs going to CanyonLands that wouldve been better off going to DisneyLand....
-Christopher
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I clearly remember the SUV craze starting. I was like "YES! When I'm ready for a new 4×4, there will be plenty of them used (I lived where vehicles don't rust) with little to no real off-road abuse, just a gravel parking lot at a playground".
The SUV craze came about because congress raised the bar on gas mileage and emmisions for passenger vehicles, exempting vehicles built on a "truck platform". By 1997, my mom's Pathfinder was really nothing more than a Maxima on steroids with a unibody frame and front MacPherson struts; the new XTerra kept the original Pathfinder's truck-frame double control arm suspension. Her pathfinder hit a pothole at age 20 with 350K miles on it. It ran perfect, the oil stayed clean, the tranny stayed clean and shifted like new. The strut separated from the body (I never could tell exactly how from the pics she sent me) at 65MPH, and she barely made it to the side of the road. NOT a real truck or 4×4. I would NEVER take that thing where I took my 1984 pickup. When I was in Hawai'i I talked to the Volcanoes NP Rangers, and they said their Chevy 4×4 SUVs would not make it up the 4×4 roads in the park. The bumpers would get torn off.
I never did get my real, off-road worthy SUV before they all became luxury vehicles for city-slickers. My 1984 Nissan pickup still rocks, so no need.
Most places now, real 4×4 roads don't exist anymore anyway, and you don't need an SUV. My old minivan, or your Honda Civic will get you there. The 4×4 roads usually weren't full of garbage, but the easily accessible ones were.
For the record, my truck kept to existing 4×4 jeep trails and logging roads. I wasn't out there tearing it up like those with dune-buggies plowing through the desert sands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
The "Rainbow family" are a GOOD reason to have regulations and enforcement. Those folks make a huge mess and contribute nothing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonEagle
Generally, i can understand what would lead you to this opinion. there are many different colors to the rainbow though and to lump them all together wouldn't be accurate or fair.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Long time deadhead but the rainbow family is just not my scene. Seems totally irresponsible and too many local 15 YO girls run off with them every february and get strung out on dope. They burned down significant portions of the forest at least twice in the last twenty years. I'm talking about the regional love-in every feb at Buck Lake.
There's a HUGE meth subculture that's sprung up from it in the boonies of Ocala. I think their anarchistic approach and not weeding out the meth heads has made them a group to avoid. I'm sure there are great folks involved- especially out west. But not so much here in my backyard.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACamper
The "Rainbow Family" is very loosely defined just like "Deadheads". Anyone can say they are a "Rainbow" or a "Deadhead".
The "Regional" Rainbow Gatherings such as Ocala are not supported by most Rainbows. They are usually a band of alcoholics with nothing that find benefit in calling their lose hobo camp a "Rainbow Gathering".
I have seen a good amount of problems with regional Rainbow gathering and messes left behind. Same kind of problem and mess as the "Deadheads" used to make as they came thru on tour.
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When I was following the Grateful Dead (including Jerry) around the country, the Rainbow Family were the "good guys" on the lot. The kind, loving, spiritually minded folks, who inspired me (partly) to be a Vegan and eat organic, who cared about the Earth, etc. They seriously frowned on amphetamines, opiates, barbiturates, etc.
A rainbow family guy I met back in about 1989 or 1990 told me that Rainbow Gatherings were about feeding and caring for homeless folks. I supposedly also met in Hawai'i at a local gathering there one of the original Rainbows who was at the first 1970 gathering. He was totally cool. He said the first one was a gathering of Religious leaders and the members of their church to pray for peace. Hard for a man of God, follower of Moses, Jesus, and/or Mohammad, to turn his back on anyone. The gatherings became a place to teach these "wild-folk" a better way to live. Eventually, the gatherings turned into a big party, as more and more people came looking for the light...
The one Dead show I saw that seemed to have a totally "dark" vibe throughout the lot was in Miami; no friendly happy-go-lucky woods-loving hippies. I used to drink 1-4 pitchers of beer (Guiness, the real stuff) every day, but after going to that show, I was calling Florida the drunken state, since every one was just stupid drunk. I felt like Satan himself was breathing down my neck (and I am not even religious!), and I was happy to leave. But the next (Tampa) show still missed that good-ol'-time Dead show feel.
The community I lived in on Hawai'i had a large "retired" Rainbow Family population as well as many younger folks that identified that way also. Most, (not all, as with any population) were good folks who openly talked against drugs like Meth, Heroin, Xanax, etc., and were also protective of the Earth (or 'Aina as referred to there).
One guy showed up the last few years, with an Ocala Rainbow Family tattoo. He WAS run out of every Rainbow Family commune-community there in Hawai'i. People were openly talking out against him as a sociopathic trouble maker. He was always nice enough to me, but I didn't know him well, and the stories I heard were troubling to my mind. He did tell me he had been a crack-head/dealer before he "found" the Rainbow Family. He and another from the mainland basically took control of the last several local gatherings. I went to 2, and it was really chill. No meth cooking! No crazy F-ed up drugs. No drunks, or even drinking that I saw. But most of the original Family boycotted because the Ocala guy was there.
My girlfriend was raped in Miami as a teenager. Folks I knew in the 1990s moved down to S. Florida and came back tweekers, telling me they had a problem they couldn't beat. My sister and her family moved there, my girlfriend moved there, and came back different people that I can't explain clearly, other than they are "harder". When I visited them, I was told every morning was a death-ride to work, with multiple deadly accidents every day. I personally saw a guy doing 80 in a 25 zone through traffic running red lights. They said it was normal.
Personally, I avoid S. Florida now-a-days. I've seen you, ECCB, openly invite people to visit. I laugh, then cringe. Seems you are one of the few...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
I'll bet they all thought that was really good stuff. Meth messes with one's mind, but if it wasn't for meth causing him to make highly erratic decisions after about 1942, Hitler might have won WW2.
Hitler was the first historically recorded speed freak, his doctor kept records, many of which survived for historians to read. So meth users today are following in Hitler's path. I wish more of them knew it, but most people don't care about history.
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Wow! I've been blaming the "Nazis" for meth (and most amphetamines) for years. Interesting tidbit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs1949
@o1marc, I have a post-graduate degree in history and have worked as a legal researcher specializing in aboriginal issues. I agree totally with your statement.
An good example of this problem is that a few decades ago when I was in high school, professional historians believed a lot of things that were not true, simply because governments routinely withheld complete information about sensitive subjects, particularly subjects like WW2, which happens to be one of my areas of special interest.
For example, it was only in the 1980s that the US Navy finally admitted that the old story that the US carrier fleet found the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway Island by accident was a cover story crafted to keep the Japanese from figuring out their top level codes had been cracked.
Of course, this announcement also opened up questions about exactly when the US Office of Naval Intelligence, the best funded US intelligence agency of the time, cracked the final level of the Japanese Enigma Codes.
The US steadfastly maintains that the ONI did not crack the Purple Code until after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but questions remain about why all 4 of the US carriers at Pearl Harbor were at sea December 7, 1941 on a secret exercise that as far as I know is still classified. It will take more than that to convince me.
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History! HA! Even if you were there, you still don't know the whole truth, for any given historical fact.
I heard we were antagonizing Japan, blockading their trade routes, until they could take no more. Then the Pres (I'm a dumb-a*s when it comes to names) told the Admiral of the Pacific Fleet to move all the ships to deep sea, leaving Pearl Harbor unprotected. He said "no, that's insane!", and was removed. The new yes-man did as told. The Pres desperately wanted into the war, but congress was blocking him...
Remember "no child left behind"? I called it "no child gets ahead". I looked into the history textbook of a high-schooler who washed dishes where I worked, back in 2001.
"George Westinghouse invented electricity, and designed and built the Niagara Falls hydroelectric center".
No. He financed the project for profit; Nikola Tesla invented AC electric power, designed the hydroelectric concept, was there helping to build it with his own hands, and when up and running and a problem occurred, Tesla was there fixing it himself since no one else even had a clue how it worked. They wrote him out of the history books because he was a socialist-philanthropist, and he thought electric power should be free to all citizens, and he also invented "free energy machines" that both the government and the gov'ment doesn't want rogue militias to get their hands on. Like the cost of crude-oil being paid in U.S. dollars, this is another fact that never gets discussed when talking about switching the world to "clean energy". When the next Hitler invades, he needs energy. Oil supplies can be cut.....
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and so, junior, that's why you will be paying $50 a night at a publicly owned campground in another 20 years, and the woods will be strictly off limits to you, except in designated areas.
I'm probably missing something, but:
There's my dung-for-the-day.
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12-12-2019, 02:20 PM
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#37
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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I'm nowhere NEAR south FL. Us regular FL folks avoid it.
Why wouldn't I invite folks to FL? I'm one of the few what??
FWIW crystal meth was invented in Japan in the late 1800's.
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12-12-2019, 02:33 PM
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#38
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I'm nowhere NEAR south FL. Us regular FL folks avoid it.
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. Good idea IMO.
In my mind, at least, there is the panhandle, and South Florida. But you said the crazy "Rainbow" folks were near you? I'm fuzzy on the geography, I should look at the map closely I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Why wouldn't I invite folks to FL? I'm one of the few what??
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you're one of the few kind, friendly folks who invite people to Fla to help them paint their buses, or for a nice friendly meetup, or whatever. You're one of the nice guys. I was shocked to hear you complain about the Rainbows in such a generalistic way, honestly. But your experience with them is what it is, and it sounds horrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
FWIW crystal meth was invented in Japan in the late 1800's.
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Maybe I'm confusing it with "Extacy". Both amphetamines. I thought they all came out of Germany. I never really looked into that, though, just street rumor I heard.
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12-12-2019, 02:55 PM
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#39
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
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Yes, Tesla is the one who gave us the electrical society we live in, neither Westinghouse nor Edison had the effect Tesla had. But Tesla wanted to give us more. Around the turn of the last century, Tesla convinced JP Morgan to finance a project. The project involved building a large steel tower near the northern end of Long Island, and using it to broadcast Tesla's wireless electricity toward New York City. It was not until the tower was nearly completed that Morgan asked how they were going to make people pay for the electricity they used. Upon being told that they could not make people pay, Morgan pulled out of the project. The tower sat there nearly 20 years until it was scrapped during WW1.
Another area of Tesla's work will possibly turn out to be even more important than Tesla's AC work. We don't know because it is still classified. In late 1941, during the California panic over a Japanese invasion. In an effort to keep the Japanese away from California, Tesla designed a beam weapon that he claimed would disintegrate Japanes planes at a range of 200 miles. But there was a problem, there was not enough electricity then being generated in the State of California to operate Tesla's machine at full power. Tesla believed that half power would be adequate burn out the wiring of planes at 200 miles and cause them to crash.
When Tesla offered this contraption to the military they adopted a don't call us, we'll call you attitude, but when he died about 2 years later, the US govt hauled Tesla's archive of every schematic he had drawn after his indenture to Edison had finished. The govt denied this for years, but finally during the Reagan administration they admitted they had lied during the war when they had taken the drawings, and then continued the lie after the war because Tesla's only heir was a Yugoslav citizen and the US did not want Tesla's designs on the other side of "The Iron Curtain."
But during the Reagan admin the US govt finally admitted that they had Tesla's drawings and were using them on the Strategic Defense Iniative, aka Star Wars. About 20-25 years ago I listened regularly to a CBC Radio documentary series, the name escapes me now, which routinely did 1 to 3 shows on a particular subject. They had a long interview with a Canadian scientist who had been a part of a project to analyze Tesla's designs. He was very careful to only answer general questions, and not go anywhere near beam weapons. He refused to answer several questions during the interview becaue he though they went a litle too far.
Most of what this scientist talked about was what he knew about the origins of the papers, including Tesla's work habits. If you can call them work habits. Tesla kept a large artists' sketch book on a bedside table and was in the habit of drawing circuits immediately upon waking up from a dream. Tesla believed that aliens were beaming these designs into his head, but modern concepts of the human intellect and creativity offer a more likely explanation that these designs were coming from Tesla's subconscious rather than aliens.
But wherever the inspiration for Tesla's drawings came from, one of the more interesting things that Canadian scientist discussed on the interview I heard was how advanced the drawings are. He said that there were many schematics that the team examining them struggled to understand, and there were some circuits that no one could understand completely.
Many people consider Tesla a flake and dismiss all talk of the importance of his work as nonsense, but I have read too much about him to dismiss him lightly. And with the importance we humans put on weapons, I am not prepared to believe that no one is putting effort into turning Tesla's theoretical beam weapons, which will have had huge vacuum tubes and giant coils, into a solid state device that will fit into a backpack.
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12-12-2019, 02:56 PM
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#40
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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The Third Reich were big on the use of methamphetamine but it wasn't invented there. MDMA was patented by Merck in 1912 though the pharmacology of it wasn't studied in humans till the 60's.
I'm right in the middle of FL. About 45 mins north of Disney. South Fl is the lower half or third of the state. Its like whole different place though. Soon as you're in South FL human life is suddenly much cheaper. Tampa has touches of this vibe as well but that's most large cities.
Parts of Orlando are rough but I don't find it particularly scary.
That Ocala head you're talking about- his name isn't Dragon, is it?
Anyhow- sorry, I was just confused a bit. This lemon og kush is rocking my world this afternoon hehehe. Thanks for the kind words, it means a lot.
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