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06-14-2021, 11:31 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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12/24 Battery Configuration
Hey All,
I am trying to get 80A @ 24V to power some electric pusher fans for my IC RE300 bus. Rather than getting a converter, can someone tell me why I could not connect 2 of my 3 auto batteries in series and use them and upgrade the alternator?
Currently I have a 160A alternator, based on the removal of the wabaso pumps and a few other things, I think that the 160A may be enough, but there is plenty of options out there to get 240A-300A in a replacement alternator.
Can someone weigh in and poke holes in this idea? Obviously fuses would be in place.
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06-15-2021, 10:03 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 638
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 26,000 lbs
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So... you want to charge up three batteries in parallel at 12V, then disconnect them, wire two of them in series for 24V, and run a 80A load from those two batteries?
Then, after running the load for, say, 30 minutes, your two batteries will be depleted. Next, you disconnect them, wire them back up in parallel, and drive around for 5 hours to get those two batteries recharged?
It is going to kill your batteries after just a few cycles – because they are starter batteries. But even if we forget that problem, and you would replace two out of three batteries with deep-cycle batteries, how are you going to actually start your bus? Using just one? Or were you planning to connect the batteries back in parallel first, and then try to start your bus? Well, the poor remaining battery will not only have to crank your engine, but it also will be charging your two depleted deep-cycle batteries you just hooked up.
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06-15-2021, 10:15 AM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NM USA KD6WJG
Posts: 1,324
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE 40 FEET
Engine: Cummins 8.3
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Why do we need the pusher fans?
__________________
Why can't I get Ivermectin for my horses?
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06-15-2021, 12:16 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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Try drawing your layout again from the top and you will see that by doing a simultaneous parallel and series configuration you will end up shorting directly across the terminals of the batteries, creating sparks and a thermonuclear meltdown. Well at least sparks and probably a fire.
It could be possible to do this with some protection diodes, but I would have to ponder that in my brain for a bit.
In 24 volt buses, like some of our highway coaches or transit buses, it's common to have a 24 volt system with some 12 volt tapped off one battery. But that's a different thing altogether and even that is not ideal. The battery that is providing the 12 volt power is always going to be drained and cycled more than the other battery in that string, which is charged with a 24 volt alternator.
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06-15-2021, 08:34 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Yup. Thanks. The short is what I was missing.
Diode’s or a decent idea but they likely have to be massive. Trying to get creative about making a 24 V system and not having to put together an entirely separate systems.
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06-15-2021, 08:35 PM
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#6
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Hmm need to think
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06-15-2021, 08:37 PM
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#7
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert06840
So... you want to charge up three batteries in parallel at 12V, then disconnect them, wire two of them in series for 24V, and run a 80A load from those two batteries?
Then, after running the load for, say, 30 minutes, your two batteries will be depleted. Next, you disconnect them, wire them back up in parallel, and drive around for 5 hours to get those two batteries recharged?
It is going to kill your batteries after just a few cycles – because they are starter batteries. But even if we forget that problem, and you would replace two out of three batteries with deep-cycle batteries, how are you going to actually start your bus? Using just one? Or were you planning to connect the batteries back in parallel first, and then try to start your bus? Well, the poor remaining battery will not only have to crank your engine, but it also will be charging your two depleted deep-cycle batteries you just hooked up.
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Sorry, but I’m not sure on what planet you think that this would be the proposed process…
Who in the word would do that.
Larger alternator for charging. And something to allow for 12 and 24v connections.
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06-15-2021, 08:38 PM
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#8
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikon
Why do we need the pusher fans?
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Rear engine
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06-15-2021, 09:31 PM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 638
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 26,000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfdime
…what planet you think that this would be the proposed process…
Who in the word would do that.
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There is need to be a jerk, particularly if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
People are here to learn and help one another.
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06-15-2021, 09:34 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 638
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 26,000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
In 24 volt buses, like some of our highway coaches or transit buses, it's common to have a 24 volt system with some 12 volt tapped off one battery. But that's a different thing altogether and even that is not ideal. The battery that is providing the 12 volt power is always going to be drained and cycled more than the other battery in that string, which is charged with a 24 volt alternator.
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It’s actually a very good system, BUT it requires a battery equalizer. My bus has this Vanner module:
https://www.invertersupply.com/index...hoCgCkQAvD_BwE
I measure my batteries religiously and it’s always spot on, down to the 10mV level.
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06-15-2021, 10:01 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 638
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 26,000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert06840
It’s actually a very good system, BUT it requires a battery equalizer.
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Here’s a diagram:
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06-15-2021, 10:23 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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Nice, Bert, thanks for that info. What kind of bus do you have? Our more vintage 24v buses lack that. Our Phantoms have that Vanner system, but the old ones are pretty basic.
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06-15-2021, 11:27 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 638
Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 26,000 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
Nice, Bert, thanks for that info. What kind of bus do you have? Our more vintage 24v buses lack that. Our Phantoms have that Vanner system, but the old ones are pretty basic.
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I got this ratty but lovely 2009 29-footer Gillig…!
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06-15-2021, 11:33 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert06840
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Ah, she is lovely! Our Vanner modules are located right behind the driver's seat on the side wall, hidden behind one of the passenger seat backs. Is that where yours is?
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06-15-2021, 11:57 PM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 42
Year: 2002
Chassis: IC RE300
Engine: DT466E (250HP/880TQ) / MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert06840
There is need to be a jerk, particularly if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
People are here to learn and help one another.
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Apologies, not trying to be a jerk.
I’m guessing I read into a tone that was not there in your post that had some pretty wild assumptions of connecting draining and disconnecting batteries every thirty minutes.
I for sure don’t know everything. Happy to share my knowledge and learn from others.
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06-16-2021, 07:01 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Besides Vanner Equalizer, see Yandina "trollbridge" autoswitching 12V / 24v
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06-19-2021, 07:50 PM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 523
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
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I use these equalizers
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BBA00...y-Balancer/dp/
It only does 1 amp but might work if the 12 volt load is only on intermittently so the equalizer can catch up with the balancing.
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06-19-2021, 11:51 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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OP said 80A
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