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09-06-2020, 03:24 PM
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#1
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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30 to 50 amp upgrade
Looking for help on converting my 30 amp service to 50 amp. from my understanding 50 amp is technically 240 volt . Now I bought a cable with twist end and the male end for the bus .I will need to re wire my breaker panel in the bus correct ? Something about double pole .I can't seem to find much online to direct me .
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09-06-2020, 03:46 PM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 895
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Have no experience, so can't offer much help, but:
50A service 'split phase,' you might have better luck finding the info and schematics you need using that term.
All wiring and components that would carry the higher current (and/or voltage) need to be sized appropriately.
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09-06-2020, 03:47 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 46
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You can buy 50A to 30A converter cords all over the place, but you are trying to do the opposite. You could build a cord that you want, but there is a reason that you cannot buy it off the shelf. To install that cord puts your bus at risk of burning down.
In order for you to convert your bus to 50A service, you have to make sure that all wiring from the 50A power pole to your bus's input overcurrent protection is capable of handling 50A of current. All wiring has to be rated to carry more current than the circuit breaker or fuse that feeds it. To ignore that is to flirt with disaster.
I googled this. See if it helps explain a 50A service and the differences in voltage. Their links to schematics go to pay sites, but they have numbered step by step directions on installing 50A service.
https://itstillruns.com/wire-50-amp-...v-7688362.html
Then you can buy or make a cord for converting to 30A service and use either.
Here is my explanation of the differences in power. Sorry if it's wordy.
A 30A RV feed is a single phase 120V or 110V capable of handling 30A of current. VxI=P, so a 30A feed can handle 3.3kw at 110VAC or 3.6kw at 120VAC.(I'm not going to introduce the difference between kva and kw)
A 50A RV feed can handle 50A of current. The difference is that a 50A service has a second 120VAC input. If one phase can carry 50A and provide 5.5kw of power, then 2 phases can provide 11kw of power at 220VAC (110+110) While your line 1 to line 2 voltage may vary, depending on whether the circuit is fed from residential or commercial 3 phase power, the results are the same where you are concerned. A 50A service will handle over 3 times the power and can handle just about any power load you want in an RV. (air conditioning!)
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09-06-2020, 05:06 PM
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#4
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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Reply
Everything is proper guage and cable is correct .I'm guessing I put the other phase wire where there jumped in this photo
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09-06-2020, 06:12 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 46
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That makes sense, but I'm not sure. Remove the jumper. The second phase is out of phase with the original phase and you can have as much as 240VAC between them. You will want to feed your panel from a main input 50A circuit breaker for safety. Then you can wire separate loads on the other phase if you want or use both for 220V appliances. (mini split)
Just because you have another leg available doesn't mean you have to use it. If you can get by with 50A of 120VAC, then that's the safest way to go.
I just noticed you are in Canada. I'm not familiar with Canadian power, so all bets are off. Sorry. It could be the same as US, but I just don't know.
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09-06-2020, 06:41 PM
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#6
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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I'm looking to get 120v only and I won't be drawing anymore the 30 amp at once
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09-06-2020, 06:45 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Just because you have another leg available doesn't mean you have to use it. If you can get by with 50A of 120VAC, then that's the safest way to go.
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Even if they use only one leg, there are new hazards with 50A service. Open neutral in particular is nasty. We had several appliances burn up and smoking after a tree took neutral out to our main panel.
50A is not GFI protected, always, always, always test the pedestal before connecting. I'd recommend installing some kind of hardwired protection upstream of the panel, an example would be Progressive Industries HW50C. We have yet to do this only because we plug in at home.
Search "50A RV open neutral". Plenty of examples and stories...
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09-06-2020, 06:47 PM
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#8
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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Already have a plug with neutral
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09-06-2020, 06:50 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogpondfoug
Already have a plug with neutral
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"Open Neutral" means the neutral wire is unknowingly disconnected, it is not a normal thing but rather a failure scenario.
That failure scenario can send ~240V to your 120V appliances. Search "50A RV open neutral" and read about it. Always test the pedestal.
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09-06-2020, 06:55 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Video explaining open neutral surge
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09-06-2020, 07:18 PM
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#11
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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Here's my cable
Not sure how the cable is wired but idk if it has netruel
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09-06-2020, 07:21 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogpondfoug
Not sure how the cable is wired but idk if it has netruel
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Your cable has neutral. Again, to repeat myself: open neutral is a failure scenario.
You _cannot_ trust an unknown pedestal at an RV park to be wired correctly, or even stay that way. Like in my case, A TREE came down on my power line, disconnecting neutral. Half of my panel went from 120VAC to near 200VAC. My garage door opener smoked and almost caught fire. The central furnace burned out. The dryer: dead.
Badly wired RV pedestals are everywhere. You cannot trust the pedestal, and with 50A you cannot count on GFI to save you. Use equipment to test the pedestal before connecting.
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09-06-2020, 07:24 PM
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#13
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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I'm not sure what u mean ,are you saying my cable isn't right or make sure I use neutral ? Thanks
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09-06-2020, 07:27 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogpondfoug
I'm not sure what u mean ,are you saying my cable isn't right or make sure I use neutral ? Thanks
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Please read carefully what I've said- I'm saying factors beyond your control may disconnect neutral in the 50A source, and this can affect you.
The lesson here is that you need to test _any_ 50A pedestal you plug into _before_ you plug in- and if possible install safety equipment in your rig to mitigate such failures.
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09-06-2020, 07:28 PM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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Okay I understand .check the plugs I use for a neutral .lol sorry was over thinking
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09-06-2020, 07:30 PM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 1,573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International RE
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogpondfoug
Okay I understand .check the plugs I use for a neutral .lol sorry was over thinking
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No, you do not understand.
When I say "test" the pedestal, I mean plug in a testing device that checks the pedestal to ensure it is wired correctly before plugging the RV/bus/rig into the pedestal.
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09-06-2020, 07:52 PM
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#17
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 143
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Tomas
Engine: 7.3l
Rated Cap: 72
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Sorry for the misunderstanding .I'll be sure to get a tester .thank you very much for the help
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09-06-2020, 09:34 PM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogpondfoug
Not sure how the cable is wired but idk if it has netruel
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The middle "flat" prong is the neutral (If I Remember Correctly) and the round one is the ground. So yes, this plug and cable does in fact have a neutral.
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09-06-2020, 10:32 PM
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#19
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 443
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cummins ISC 260HP/660Q/MD3060 6spd
Rated Cap: 81
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Canada and USA are the some when it comes to electrical, it’s not like Europe. From what I can tell you’ll need a new breaker panel for 50 amp service. I have 50 amp.
Simply put a 30 amp rv set up has one 30 amp 120 volt hot wire, a neutral and a ground.
50 amp RV service has two 50 amp hot wires (that’s 50 amp each) and they’re each 120 volt. You can set up 240 volt appliances with 50 amp service by using both hot lines. And of course there is also a neutral and a ground wire.
If you have or get a 240 volt electrical panel one of the “hot” wires will go to each side of the panel. You’ll want to make sure you have a ground wire running from the electrical panel to the bus frame. If you don’t know what you’re doing with the electrical make sure you educate yourself or get help.
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