AC Breaker Panel Grounding Question

[dzl_]

There are some good videos by a guy named Mike Holt on youtube about grounding. He is super knowledgeable, and teaches electrical training courses. I recommend watching one or two of them at least. Super info-dense, but quite helpful in understanding the logic of grounding.


Here is a training

on grounding fundamentals

[dj2109]

Originally Posted by bp1791-unleashed

Sorry I was too verbose.

No, this is not correct.

Are you sure? Can you tell me why then?

[bp1791-unleashed]

[dj2109]

Originally Posted by bp1791-unleashed

Please do not comment on my posts anymore if you’re going to be negative. Thanks

[ol trunt]

Within just under a month, starting with Electrical Newbie on 8/1, you have posed 7 questions related to your electrical system. There have been 185 replies (including some of your own).

In those replies it has been suggested 22 times that you should read up on electrical systems before continuing. It has been pointed out 10 times that you need to pay utmost attention to electrical safety and it has been recommended 6 times that you need to consult a qualified electrician and/or have the system installed.

I took the time to read all of the entries just now and as close as you have come to acknowledging having read any of the suggested references is when you said, and I paraphrase, "Thanks, that looks like a good read". Regarding safety and I again paraphrase, the comment you made was "I don't want to blow my bus up". I don't believe there was any reply to the suggestion of help from an electrician.

As I progressed through the threads it became more and more clear to me that the following quote from one of your responders pretty much sums up your attitude. Here is the quote: "IMO, much of this thread reads like the 'learning' is being avoided (e.g. just tell me what parts to buy and hook up)."

That you don't like all of the answers you've made perfectly clear and that is OK. It does leave me and I expect several others feeling like we are being used.

I do wish you success in completing your build despite not agreeing with your tactics.
Jack

[dj2109]

I can’t believe the critical nature of some of the users in this forum. Why would you spend all that time to rag on me like that?

You are under the assumption that I’m pulling all of this out of my ass. I’ve done nothing but research for the past 3 months. I started this journey not knowing the difference between a watt and a volt. You all expect me to be a technical expert whilst working on my bus full time.

I’m learning and building and retaining as much knowledge as physically possible without getting burnt out. For me to ask someone to doublecheck my work once in a while without giving an elitist type response is fair.

Why would you withhold the answer like a carrot on a stick? That is profoundly pompous. Again, if you don’t like my threads, stop responding.

Your judgments are based off assumptions and frankly are very rude. Your attitude HOPEFULLY does not reflect the true nature of the skoolie community. If so, I question why I’d like to join.

[JDOnTheGo]

That reply, dj2109, is coming VERY close to getting some moderator action. I'd suggest you take a deep breath, re-read the advice and suggestions that have been offered, and consider them again.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by dj2109

I can’t believe the critical nature of some of the users in this forum. Why would you spend all that time to rag on me like that?

You are under the assumption that I’m pulling all of this out of my ass. I’ve done nothing but research for the past 3 months. I started this journey not knowing the difference between a watt and a volt. You all expect me to be a technical expert whilst working on my bus full time.

I’m learning and building and retaining as much knowledge as physically possible without getting burnt out. For me to ask someone to doublecheck my work once in a while without giving an elitist type response is fair.

Why would you withhold the answer like a carrot on a stick? That is profoundly pompous. Again, if you don’t like my threads, stop responding.

Your judgments are based off assumptions and frankly are very rude. Your attitude HOPEFULLY does not reflect the true nature of the skoolie community. If so, I question why I’d like to join.

DJ nobody is trying to 'rag on you', the criticism you are receiving is meant to be constructive and in good faith. Forging ahead with the A/C electrical install, when the type of question you are asking make it clear you don't have an overall understanding/awareness of a system that could well kill you, is making a lot of people (me included nervous). And the fact that you are ignoring a lot of well meaning (and in my opinion on point) advice to focus on the fundamentals and the big picture before asking all these specific 'give-a-man-a-fish' type questions.


I think basically everyone here wants you to succeed, and wants to be helpful, what you are perceiving as people ragging on you is really people trying to help but you not liking the advice that is being given because its not exactly what you are asking for.


I agree with everyone here that is saying that you should devote more time to researching and understanding what you are doing and the big picture as opposed to asking all these one off questions. Get a basic understanding first, then move on to specific questions and installation.


Most of us barely have a grasp of the ins and outs of the electrical system ourselves, and are not electricians. You should not feel super confident asking us to answer all these questions for you without having done your own research too. As someone else said, with plumbing if you screw up some things will get wet..


This is meant in good faith, and with your interests in mind, it is not meant to be criticism for criticisms sake.


Nobody expects you to be a technical expert, but the fact that you are leaning so heavily on the advice of strangers on the internet for sooo many specific (and sometimes basic) questions does make it feel like you have not put in the time to understand what you are working with. I can relate to this (probably most of us can), I have put in 100's of hours of research and still do not feel at all confident in my understanding of how all the pieces fit together and all the intricacies, most of all grounding. But would not move forward until I did feel that I mostly knew what I was doing.



I think what you are perceiving as hostility is a combination of nervousness, frustration, and good faith constructive criticism.

[Artor]

Use protective cable connectors where your wires enter the box, or you will abrade through the insulation and have a short. Your bus is going to vibrate as you drive it. It's not a static thing where that cable is never going to move again. If you are having trouble understanding the information you're getting, then you should hire a professional electrician, whose work won't murderkill you in your sleep.

[Artor]

Originally Posted by dj2109

Thank you all for your answers.

I get a lot of good information but I get a lot of unnecessary criticism also.

What I'm simply asking is for someone to double check my work. If it's wrong, I can go back and understand why.

If it's right, I understand why.

Can ANYONE verify if what I did was correct? Thanks

That criticism is there because people don't want you to die in a fire. You should listen to them. If you're too sensitive to hear it, you probably should not be doing any of this work yourself. Because you might well die from it, no joke!

[kazetsukai]

Hey man.

We've talked about this topic and others, you know I'm not trying to rag on you or mislead you. Like I mentioned there's always some people that are better ignored but most of the people here are trying to help in their own way. Trust me: you need to step back for a moment and reflect here.

Originally Posted by dj2109

I can’t believe the critical nature of some of the users in this forum. Why would you spend all that time to rag on me like that?

I think you're making the mistake of taking the critiques personally. Lets look at your response to bp1791-unleashed, a friend of mine ( ) on the forum :

Originally Posted by dj2109

Please do not comment on my posts anymore if you’re going to be negative. Thanks

One page back this user wrote you a wall of text _full_ of good information. They spent time on that response, and even if it wasn't specifically what you were after, it wasn't negative. Go back and read it. Then read how you responded. Think about whether your reaction here is warranted.

Originally Posted by dj2109

You are under the assumption that I’m pulling all of this out of my ass. I’ve done nothing but research for the past 3 months. I started this journey not knowing the difference between a watt and a volt.

This is why many people here including myself have this feeling you're going a little too fast. The question of grounding is complex, and we talked about it. When I told you the thing you didn't want to do no matter what was bond neutral to the chassis, did you think it was at all relevant to bonding ground to chassis? You probably had no reference for why I was mentioning neutral in response to this question.

The reason for this is, there's a bigger picture you need to see to be safe. All you need for electricity to work is a circuit- ground is something extra, something that has a specific purpose and intent. You really need to see the big picture to understand that intent.

Originally Posted by dj2109

You all expect me to be a technical expert whilst working on my bus full time.

This is not true, we're hoping for you to have the minimum requisite knowledge to understand your system, not just have a working system. A system that works is dangerous in the hands of a user that doesn't understand it... and understanding the system involves more than answering your specific line of questions.

Originally Posted by dj2109

I’m learning and building and retaining as much knowledge as physically possible without getting burnt out. For me to ask someone to doublecheck my work once in a while without giving an elitist type response is fair.

I think you're taking critical feedback that doesn't prescribe a solution a bit personally. That's not good. Just take it as a data point, as for clarification, and if you get it great. If not, shrug. Your reaction is worse, and just making it worse for you.


And I know burnout more than you do, buddy. I've had three years of what you're going through and I'm now going through some that are even worse in some ways. As is the friend I mentioned above. You'll learn to better deal with the workload over time if you're patient enough to stick with it.

Originally Posted by dj2109

Why would you withhold the answer like a carrot on a stick? That is profoundly pompous. Again, if you don’t like my threads, stop responding.

I don't think that's what they're doing, although I understand why you'd feel this way. But before that, what do you have control over: them responding in a way you don't like, or your reaction to their responses? I think some good stoicism is better than being overly sensitive, even if your critique was entirely valid.

Originally Posted by dj2109

Your judgments are based off assumptions and frankly are very rude. Your attitude HOPEFULLY does not reflect the true nature of the skoolie community. If so, I question why I’d like to join.

Would you say, you regret it? You regret getting in contact with folks like myself? I'm a part of that community, you know.

Its not my intention to judge or shame you, but to reason with you. It is easy to make mistakes when you are compromised by frustration or anger. Calm down and reflect a little, don't let emotion lead to bad reactions. Its my belief that people here, in this thread, are trying to help you, and are one of your best resources. Hopefully me included.

[bp1791-unleashed]

Originally Posted by bp1791-unleashed

Sorry I was too verbose.

No, this is not correct.

Originally Posted by dj2109

Are you sure? Can you tell me why then?

Originally Posted by bp1791-unleashed

Originally Posted by dj2109

Please do not comment on my posts anymore if you’re going to be negative. Thanks

I wasn't going to put any responses in this thread per the OP's request. Even though I felt like I wasn't being negative, I've had the advantage of time to see that the above quoted back and forth was in fact quite negative. It was snarky, disrespectful, and rude, and I apologize to everyone.

dj2109, I apologize for be being snarky, rude, and disrespectful to you. I'm sorry.

It does not excuse my behavior, but so that everyone understands where my head was at the time. I had gotten up at 1am to be on the road by 2am, and driven to Kentucky from Virginia. I was trying to write the original post while people were talking all around me. I spent considerable time writing up an answer, including necessary (and probably some unnecessary) background information. The answer was in there, starting in paragraph 11. I was frustrated to have tried so hard to help, only to feel like it was ignored and taken in a negative way when it was all meant as positive criticism.

I wrote this post with information meant to help, with the knowledge that it would need to be read and digested, but once digested would provide the knowledge to fully answer the question and several other questions. I even did extra research while writing that response, and learned a few things in the process.

I am not a licensed electrician. I've been doing renovations and remodeling and repairs on personal residences since 1982, so I have a lot of practical knowledge. I probably have incorrect knowledge as well, and I truly hope an actual licensed electrician will step in and correct me when I get it wrong.

Sincerely,
Jim

PS, per the OPs request, this is my last response to any of his questions unless he says otherwise.

[dj2109]

Thank you for your apology.

These kinds of projects are very overwhelming and can definitely bring the best and worst out of us, including myself.

No harm no foul

[peteg59]

The black wire you have connected to the bus bar with two green wires, (bottom pic in post#13), could be a direct short if the black is a power wire as typical house wiring is.

I had an electrician wire up my outside shore power outlet to a breaker panel inside, as well as hooking up the individual inside circuits and properly grounding all to keep things safe.

I know enough about electricity to get myself in trouble if its anything more than pulling wires and wiring interior outlet boxes!

Although electricians rates vary and are typically high, I find it best to rely on one's expertise to get it right than my own seat of the pants limited electrical skills.

Good luck, and stay safe!

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by dj2109

What gauge wire is necessary for 100amp breaker box? 2/0?

Number 6 green or bare copper