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05-13-2019, 09:40 PM
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#1
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Any Advantage To 2 Inverters?
Since I plan on welding capabilities on the bus and I have 2 inverters whether setting one up in the garage and one for the house electric would be any advantage. I suspect an advantage is only gained if I also have separate battery supply to the extra one.
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05-14-2019, 01:11 AM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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They both could share the same battery bank. Having your garage on its own inverter does sound like a decent idea. It also gives you some redundancy.
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05-14-2019, 05:08 AM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The West
Posts: 1,210
Year: 1998
Coachwork: MCI
Chassis: 102 EL3
Engine: DD 60
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Good question Marc but... difficult to answer.
I'm not sure what size inverter would be required for welding (or if it's even possible) so just brainstorming here. I'll assume that a big inverter is required (3000-5000 watt).
Several factors are at play. Inverter efficiency is a big one. I believe in the ideal world, an inverter would be sized to operate at its peak efficiency and would be located as close to the battery bank as possible. Of course, for our style use, the power draw is not usually consistent which makes sizing for peak efficiency difficult/impossible (think of a refrigerator with a 50% duty cycle or worse, a microwave that is only used 2 minutes per day).
Inverters also have a current draw, even when doing nothing. Depending on the inverters, two might waste a lot more power than one - or two might be much better. The larger/modern/name brand inverters have some interesting 'standby' modes now that may reduce this consumption to a very low level. None of those work for me as I have a constant 120VAC power draw but it might be useful for some. I can't remember the old rule of thumb (pre-smart standby mode) but seems like it was 1% of rated output?? Someone please correct me if wrong.
Cable size and voltage drop is very significant with any inverter and when talking about large ones (2000 watts) and a 12VDC battery bank, you quickly become very limited by cable length. That said, there may still be an efficiency advantage to multiple inverters even with them located side by side next to the battery bank.
To decide, I think I'd lay out my 120VAC electrical system with a careful eye towards which accessories will need power all the time vs occasional use. If you could power the former with a small inverter and the latter with a larger inverter that is only turned on when needed, it might be worth doing.
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05-14-2019, 06:31 AM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 1,413
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: CAT 3126
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A lot of people use a small inverter for their fridge. It runs all the time and is more efficient. The big one comes on for intermittent larger loads.
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05-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 3,227
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
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Good post JD--I'm not sure about the welder either.
Jack
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05-14-2019, 11:43 AM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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These are the 2 inverters I have. Just realized the 3500/7000 is a modified sine wave as opposed to my 3000/6000 that is pure sine wave. The welder I have is 110v, 35-88amp output.
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05-14-2019, 02:31 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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I have two inverters in my bus. A small one by the driver's leg on the wall for charging phones and running a laptop, etc..
a bigger one I will mount by the kitchen for running a blender or maybe a toaster oven.
I know converters [[from 120VAC to (x)VDC]] use power just by plugging them in. My inverters [[from 12VDC to 120VAC]] have fans that use power, so running two at a time may be wasteful. Not sure if a bigger one "wastes" more power than a smaller one, but I will go with that assumption until I know different. So I use my small one, until it won't kick-over the motor or shows an overload.
I'm always for modular. Especially when things interchange (think Apollo 13)
They used to make 12V welders that you could find for sale in the back of 4×4 magazines. Nice to be able to fix your rig on the trail. They required larger alternators, from what I remember. That was 25 years ago, though!
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05-14-2019, 03:41 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome
I have two inverters in my bus. A small one by the driver's leg on the wall for charging phones and running a laptop, etc..
a bigger one I will mount by the kitchen for running a blender or maybe a toaster oven.
I know converters [[from 120VAC to (x)VDC]] use power just by plugging them in. My inverters [[from 12VDC to 120VAC]] have fans that use power, so running two at a time may be wasteful. Not sure if a bigger one "wastes" more power than a smaller one, but I will go with that assumption until I know different. So I use my small one, until it won't kick-over the motor or shows an overload.
I'm always for modular. Especially when things interchange (think Apollo 13)
They used to make 12V welders that you could find for sale in the back of 4×4 magazines. Nice to be able to fix your rig on the trail. They required larger alternators, from what I remember. That was 25 years ago, though!
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l found that interesting so I did a bit of a search - you can buy 12V welders in North America for $700 - $1000 - I also checked Alibaba - ususally when you buy from them you have to order 100's or 1000's of an item, but with the 12V welders you can order as few as one - from the looks of it, at least some of the 12V welders they are selling for as little as $40 are the same as the much higher priced ones sold here
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/wel...chine-12v.html
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05-14-2019, 04:21 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,094
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
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Guess what I just bookmarked?!!
Gonna have to do some spec speculation when I have a protracted break due to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer
l found that interesting so I did a bit of a search - you can buy 12V welders in North America for $700 - $1000 - I also checked Alibaba - ususally when you buy from them you have to order 100's or 1000's of an item, but with the 12V welders you can order as few as one - from the looks of it, at least some of the 12V welders they are selling for as little as $40 are the same as the much higher priced ones sold here
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/wel...chine-12v.html
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*drool*
__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
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05-14-2019, 06:54 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer
l found that interesting so I did a bit of a search - you can buy 12V welders in North America for $700 - $1000 - I also checked Alibaba - ususally when you buy from them you have to order 100's or 1000's of an item, but with the 12V welders you can order as few as one - from the looks of it, at least some of the 12V welders they are selling for as little as $40 are the same as the much higher priced ones sold here
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/wel...chine-12v.html
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It isn't till the order is being placed that you find out that one item coming from China is $400 in shipping and you might get it in 3 months.
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05-14-2019, 06:57 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
It isn't till the order is being placed that you find out that one item coming from China is $400 in shipping and you might get it in 3 months.
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I've bought stuff from them before and was surprised how reasonable their shipping costs were - they have their own ships - some of there stuff advertises free delivery
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05-14-2019, 06:58 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,094
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
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As long as it arrives, and does what it claims to...
Whats the rush?
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
It isn't till the order is being placed that you find out that one item coming from China is $400 in shipping and you might get it in 3 months.
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(Which became my mantra after getting my T444E...)
__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
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05-14-2019, 07:04 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Can we get back to inverter info. If you want a 12v welder, get a battery and hook weld leads to them, it's done all the time.
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05-15-2019, 12:58 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
These are the 2 inverters I have. Just realized the 3500/7000 is a modified sine wave as opposed to my 3000/6000 that is pure sine wave. The welder I have is 110v, 35-88amp output.
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Your welder has the capability to use just under 11K watts. Neither of your inverters will power that.
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05-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,791
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native
Your welder has the capability to use just under 11K watts. Neither of your inverters will power that.
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Hmmm.. I don't think so.
Being that it is a 120vac welder, it will likely run sustained at 20 amps with momentary surge of a bit upwards of that. That would put it at 2400 watts running.
The 38-88 amps that is listed is the output current range on the low-voltage side of the welder (~30vdc, presumably).
o1marc, what welder are you running specifically?
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05-15-2019, 08:20 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,956
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
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When you ask such a question marco you should include nameplate data from the devices or a pic of the nameplates.
Not thinking this is a good idea for longterm useage.
Why don't you run the welder off that old Onan you bought. They need to be exercised often so if doing lots of welding you can kill two birds with one stone. And still use the Onan for when off grid.
John
__________________
Question everything!
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05-15-2019, 10:00 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer
I've bought stuff from them before and was surprised how reasonable their shipping costs were - they have their own ships - some of there stuff advertises free delivery
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My experience has been similar.
Reasonable of even free shipping and delivery times of two to three weeks.
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05-15-2019, 12:16 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native
Your welder has the capability to use just under 11K watts. Neither of your inverters will power that.
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What welder is that?
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05-15-2019, 12:19 PM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,094
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
What welder is that?
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Moot question.
__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
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05-15-2019, 12:39 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960
Moot question.
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How is moot? It is totally inaccurate and a statement that can't be made without know more particulars.
Maybe you can clear it up by telling me my welder model number and it's wattage consumption?
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