Battery Problems-Wait to Start Doesn’t Come On.

[BabztheBus]

So a few weeks back. I had a no engine start problem. Turned the key to just get a solid flick. Had a buddy come over, he replaced some of the battery terminals and connectors and it fired up. Now fast forward a few weeks I brought my battery In after forgetting to unplug it. They charged it up, yaddiyadiyah. I go to start the bus up and same problem as last time. I went below deck, plugged the battery in but still the same problem. Click. No waiting to start, no crank, nothing. Battery measured at 12 volts though. My question is. In my battery box I have 2 cables on the positive side, 1 is most definitely the ground strap. Now I’m a novice and only dealt with this on cars. But do I connect both the positive and the ground to the terminal? It is quite a tight squeeze in the battery box plus getting both on the terminal. Is this how you are supposed to do it? I’m not trying to ruin my battery.

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

But do I connect both the positive and the ground to the terminal?

I am not sure if it is your wording ? terminal should be terminals, plural.

The positive goes on the +(red) terminal and the -(black) terminal.

[Booyah45828]

Most buses have the batteries on a tray that can slide out of the box. See if your's does, that will get you more space to work.

It looks like you have the wrong batteries, you need group 31 with the threaded terminals. Make sure the terminals and the cables are clean and free of corrosion.

As far as terminals and wires go. It looks like you have 4 wires there. Navistar has one fused wire that goes to the positive battery terminal that powers the ecm, so make sure that it's connected or you'll have issues, I've seen a lot of people miss/forget that.

But the biggest thing is to pull the tray out so you can actually work on it.

[BabztheBus]

Thank you Booyah. See that was the question I was asking. It looks like their is 4 cable connections. That’s what I’m wondering. My ECM isn’t booting up.

Also I don’t have a tray so I have to work with what little space I have. I don’t know what the previous owner did with it. So do I connect those 2 cables to the one positive terminal? And than the negative as usual?

[BabztheBus]

I have never had an engine battery like this. So from my understanding. I hook the the positive to the terminal but than I take that smaller cord coming off of the negative and that goes to the positive too?

[ol trunt]

Better find out from the PO or the mfg where the wires should go before you try to re-hookup the cables. Engine computers are very unforgiving about being wired backwards and most will let all their smoke out if hooked up backwards.

Regarding "than I take that smaller cord coming off of the negative and that goes to the positive too?" if the smaller cord actually comes off the negative, NEVER hook it to the positive it could very likely cause the battery to explode.

You say the bus was running etc. How was it wired at that time?
Jack

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

I have never had an engine battery like this. So from my understanding. I hook the the positive to the terminal but than I take that smaller cord coming off of the negative and that goes to the positive too?

Do NOT connect them together, you will damage many things!!
Any way to get better pictures of the cables and battery terminals? That will help a lot...

John

[BabztheBus]

Ok so first off it is the correct battery with threaded terminals. Second here are some additional pics. It seems a little more complex than a car battery.

So on the left we have our positive. And another black cord that has 2 additional cords hanging from it (one looks like it goes to the ECM plugs” the other is just a white cord. And than on the right we have the negative. I’m wondering how or where I connect these smaller ones because I’m still not even getting power.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

Ok so first off it is the correct battery with threaded terminals. Second here are some additional pics. It seems a little more complex than a car battery.

So on the left we have our positive. And another black cord that has 2 additional cords hanging from it (one looks like it goes to the ECM plugs” the other is just a white cord. And than on the right we have the negative. I’m wondering how or where I connect these smaller ones because I’m still not even getting power.

First I think that the battery is not the stock set-up. This battery seems to have been converted from a post to the threaded stud to make connecting the wires back up easier. As you can see in one of the photos here, the two 31 group batteries are more common on the Internationals. Your battery tray has been removed to accommodate the larger size battery. What might happen since the tray and battery hold-down have been removed is the battery terminal can hit the metal body and cause an arc. That arcing can cause you more issues.

[BabztheBus]

Here lies the problem. The guy must’ve replaced the 2 batteries with just 1. Now because of this I have a bunch of wires all over the place not knowing where to connect. I don’t think the extra thick cord on the left also goes to the positive. This whole thing has me stumped ��

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

Here lies the problem. The guy must’ve replaced the 2 batteries with just 1. Now because of this I have a bunch of wires all over the place not knowing where to connect. I don’t think the extra thick cord on the left also goes to the positive. This whole thing has me stumped ��

Probably did just that. The concern is not the wiring but keeping that battery terminal from bouncing and the positive terminal hitting the metal above it. You probably have fewer wires to deal with.

I edited my post so don't pay attention to the original. I have more than one Thomas International and they all have two negative cables to the batteries and one cable to the positive terminal. On mine, the small fused wires go to the positive and the white wire with the second negative cable go to the negative terminal.

[BabztheBus]

^^^^ this is what I needed to know ^^^^

Thank You Bama. Well my plan anyways was to wire 2 battery’s in parallel and in doing so I was going to clean out the battery box and build a slide out for it, since this one seems to be missing. What I wanted to know was the correct wiring for this weird battery, and for the life of me I couldn’t figure out how it was set up before hand. (The battery died so I had to get it charged up)

When I get back I’m going to wire it like this accordingly I never had those little wires on the terminal that’s why it always gave me problems! I didn’t know what they were. Thank You!

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

I never had those little wires on the terminal that’s why it always gave me problems!

Just need to say that what I posted is correct for my buses, yours may be different. I don't know what is on the other end of your wiring.

[cadillackid]

I'll need to look at mine.. I almost never see ground wires fused so those 2 small wires seem they should be positive connected...



mine is a newer model 444E which has the single computer.. yours shows as a 96 whuich has a different computer system (there are 3 modules on yours)..



I may have a wiring diagram for that at home as well, i'll have to look.. in navistar terms i often see Purple wires as Positive battery circuits

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by BabztheBus

Ok so first off it is the correct battery with threaded terminals. Second here are some additional pics. It seems a little more complex than a car battery.

So on the left we have our positive. And another black cord that has 2 additional cords hanging from it (one looks like it goes to the ECM plugs” the other is just a white cord. And than on the right we have the negative. I’m wondering how or where I connect these smaller ones because I’m still not even getting power.

It isn't the correct battery.....

You have a 31P battery, with clamp on thread adapters so that you can connect to your wires. You should have and need 31T batteries, which are threaded terminals.

Whoever changed it, likely removed the tray in order to fit the battery and the adapters.

Finally, the orange wire with the fuses powers the pcm. Hook those to the positive terminal. You'll have to trace the white wire and see where it goes. I'm thinking it isn't factory navistar, but it might be bus body manufacturer, or maybe something add on by an owner.