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Old 01-08-2018, 03:44 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Bus wouldnít start, bypassed ignition now wonít go faster than about 10mph?

I havenít seen any posts with this problem yet, I might also have to try this one myself. Iím gonna give the whole story just in case any of it is related to the new problem.

We pulled into a repair shop after the air stopped working. We werenít losing air( only when braking) it just wasnít filling back up. While on that drive I pushed a few buttons on the panel looking for flashers.

The next morning we tried to start to pull into a repair bay and got nothing from turning the key. We had power to the dash tho.

They ended up towing it in, replacing a governer on the air, and bypassing the ignition to a push button.

Now I canít get out of first gear. Any advice is greeaatly appreciated

94 bluebird international/navi


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Old 01-08-2018, 05:22 PM   #2
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Is push button across the starter solenoid?
Your starter solenoid could also have other wires attached that send a signal out to different control modules like the ignition control module or an ECM that is looking for some kind of info. It isn't getting.
Are your RPM getting up enough to shift and your speed not getting there or are you rolling along good and revving up enough RPM and it's just not shifting.
On the older non computer stuff there is not much connected to the starter solenoid but on the electronic stuff I can't help that much. Other than ask questions to help trouble shoot.
If you answer the question about the RPM and speed thing then I have an idea about that but it has nothing to do with the non start condition.
But you can find the starter solenoid and tap on it with a decent weight wrench or small hammer while turning the key switch and see if it kicks in. If so the solenoid is bad. If they wired the push button across the solenoid and the starter works but not other things wired to it then the solenoid is probably bad.
Others with more experience on your specific engine should be along Farely soon with better advice.
Good luck
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:35 PM   #3
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with the ignition bypassed the ECM very well may not know the bus is turned on.. or may not have power to the proper relays... the ECM expects certain inputs to be high and then will trip the power and starter enable relays which allow the key switch to start it... you likely blew a fuse, or tripped an interlock of some sort..
-Christopher
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:10 PM   #4
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Just for my knowledge Chris. Doesn't even a computer controlled bus still have a dedicated starter solenoid?
I have asked the OP some questions that haven't been answered yet about there RPM and actual speed
They said the shop replaced a governor in the air brakes and I wanted to make sure they didn't still have a brake or brakes not releasing all the way. Maybe locked up by a bad governor or vice-versa?
And put a starter push button in? Wht did they wire the button across?
I ain't a computer man but I try to edgemucate myself when I don't know?
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
Is push button across the starter solenoid?

.

Are your RPM getting up enough to shift and your speed not getting there or are you rolling along good and revving up enough RPM and it's just not shifting.



Thanks so much for the info already! Everything helps, Iím sure you all know.
I thought the rpms weíre getting high enough to change but now that I think about it Iím not sure. There was a moment where it switched gears while going a little faster down a hill but we pulled into the Walmart right after. Weíre staying here tonight and try out some things in the am.

The picture is the ignition showing the bypass on the far left, red wire.

We checked all the fuses and theyíre all good except one that trips no matter how big a fuse we put in. There was one inline fuse on the ignition thatís good, not sure if thereís any more.



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Old 01-08-2018, 06:16 PM   #6
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with the ignition bypassed the ECM very well may not know the bus is turned on.. or may not have power to the proper relays... the ECM expects certain inputs to be high and then will trip the power and starter enable relays which allow the key switch to start it... you likely blew a fuse, or tripped an interlock of some sort..
-Christopher


Oh and for the interlock, we took out the back door one right away and it hasnít caused any problems, I did wonder if flipping some switches rattled the cage and woke some beast


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Old 01-08-2018, 06:24 PM   #7
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From that pic of the ign, looks like that connector has been heating up. That big red wire likely should have 12v to feed the switch. It is open enough at the bottom if you are able. Get rid of the bypass. Pull the wiring off the switch and clean the dust off, check connector condition on all wires. Are you able to check the switch out yourself for continuity? Just turning the key with no power and checking with a multimeter set on ohms. You might find the switch contacts are burnt also so best replacing it.
I think it's either the connector has a bad connection or the switch is kaput.

John
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:32 PM   #8
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roger - yes there is a dedicated solenoid.. but the ECM needs certain conditions to be met to enable the relay...

if the brakes arent releasing then when you left off the accelerator the bus should slow down real quickly and not just coast down. if the computer is Limped it wont allow the RPMS over 1500-2000 which wont shift the transmission at full throttle... is your WARN light lit at all when the bus is running?
-Christopher
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:40 PM   #9
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I doubt it is it? But can you hook the one in the back up again?
Next is where is the other wire on the push button hooked to? Any switch requires two points.
But if it's a bad switch then none of those other wires are going to get what they need as for as power. Unless they are all bypassed? Which with a wiring diagram could be done easily to get you home or just get another switch which Walmart don't sell and the repair shop just did something to get you on the way.
Born and raised in east Texas as an oilfield kid and know Louisiana. If you are around I-10 or 20 then hit a truck stop garage and they will get or have the parts you want.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:58 PM   #10
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roger - yes there is a dedicated solenoid.. but the ECM needs certain conditions to be met to enable the relay...

if the brakes arent releasing then when you left off the accelerator the bus should slow down real quickly and not just coast down. if the computer is Limped it wont allow the RPMS over 1500-2000 which wont shift the transmission at full throttle... is your WARN light lit at all when the bus is running?
-Christopher


Shoot! I totally forgot to mention the warn engine light turned on and has been on since the first morning when it wouldnít start!

Iím not sure where the push button is wired to, Iíll have to check in the morning.

The brakes feel ok, I donít feel like Iím slowing down too fast while coasting. The tow driver did have to manually release the brakes to move the bus but he took his tools out when he was done.

I donít know much about how an engine works, just so you know where Iím coming from. I would like to try and fix this myself tho. Gotta learn sometime


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Old 01-08-2018, 07:01 PM   #11
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Shoot! I totally forgot to mention the warn engine light turned on and has been on since the first morning when it wouldnít start!

Iím not sure where the push button is wired to, Iíll have to check in the morning.

The brakes feel ok, I donít feel like Iím slowing down too fast while coasting. The tow driver did have to manually release the brakes to move the bus but he took his tools out when he was done.

I donít know much about how an engine works, just so you know where Iím coming from. I would like to try and fix this myself tho. Gotta learn sometime


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Iím also going to try and hook up the old back door lock just to see.


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Old 01-08-2018, 07:15 PM   #12
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Hook it up to rule it out.
But that ignition switch has more wires in and out of it than what was bypassed? And as mentioned the connector looked kind of wore out so the switch might be fine (a little stressed) but the connector in the middle could be bad.
The connector itself if in a bind can be cut off and hard wire each one to ther respective points but with a wiring harness like that? It means in my mind that you have a bad main power wire grounding out somewhere ?
That is worst case and the bad switch connector could be it?
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:19 PM   #13
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the tow driver caged the brakes.. he inserted the cage bolts into the rear cylinders.. those cage bolts usually reside with the vehicle.. unless he had some with him that fit your bus..

your rear brakes are engaged when the air pressure is low... and released with high pressure.. so he had to manually operate the big springs that air normally operates..

the WARN light... thats your check-engine light... there should be a round gray connector under your dashboard... thats your diagnostic connector.. next to that connector should be a black diagnostic button.. you can read the computer error codes from the dashboard..

turn your key to ON but dont start the bus... then press that black button and watch your dash light..

the WARN light or the 'Oil / water' alarm will flash out you the error codes.. it is a pattern with spaces...

flash-flash-off-flash-flash-flash-off-flash--Long off--- would be code 2-2-1.

if you can get the flash codes we can look them up in the books..

-Christopher
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:35 PM   #14
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This is some great info! Thanks! Weíre gonna clean up the ignition wires and check the hot for problems in the morning.
We just did the check engine button and got a pretty long code;
1 2 2 3 1 6 2 2 2 1 3 5 1 2 2 4 1 3 3 3
Each 1 is the oil light, the others are the warn engine light


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Old 01-08-2018, 07:46 PM   #15
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This is some great info! Thanks! Weíre gonna clean up the ignition wires and check the hot for problems in the morning.
We just did the check engine button and got a pretty long code;
1 2 2 3 1 6 2 2 2 1 3 5 1 2 2 4 1 3 3 3
Each 1 is the oil light, the others are the warn engine light


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I just looked a little more about these codes and realized we did some wrong counting. These are the codes
223 622 135 224 333


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Old 01-09-2018, 04:05 PM   #16
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So we replaced the ignition switch, and manually connected the wires. Nothing has changed, except that after we drive for about 10-15 minutes the bus shifts nicely up until 3rd or 4th gear and will stay there until we stop. Then itís back to 5mph. I would have liked to fix this myself but it may be beyond my capability. Thereís a mechanic who can check it out Monday


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Old 01-09-2018, 05:29 PM   #17
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If it starts now with the ign switch that is a significant change so I am not understanding you at all.
You may have shifting problems till the computer figures out your driving style. In other words it may have lost it's memory of before and has to relearn new patterns. Might take a few days, miles or starts to re-establish correct shifts.
What did that connector look like, any pics?

John
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:48 PM   #18
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code 223 which is related to 622 is like;ly the large source of issue.. the Vehicle personality module is not getting power so the engine is running at a system default Horsepower rating which is really low.. its possibly bypassing the ignition switch is not letting all of the computers fire up correctly..

135 is an idle validation circuit - not a code I see often.. I know that circuit is part of the harness going into the accelerator pedal. . if it sees IVS active it may not let the RPM go up when you press the pedal as it assumes the engine is supposed to be idling..

224 is a memory corruption issue (KAM corrupt) is the description.. my guess it is also a power issue to the computers...

333 is an ICP error.. the ICP sensor may be no good or the IPR (the valve which adjusts the pressure)... its reading way above or below the desired level..

some of this sounds almost like you could have a bad ground someplace.. i would make sure the wiring harness connectors are all tight and not burnt or damaged..

-Christopher
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:50 PM   #19
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If it starts now with the ign switch that is a significant change so I am not understanding you at all.
You may have shifting problems till the computer figures out your driving style. In other words it may have lost it's memory of before and has to relearn new patterns. Might take a few days, miles or starts to re-establish correct shifts.
What did that connector look like, any pics?

John
its a 1995 in their profile.. the transmission should be mechanical in that year... the modulator might be electric and with the computer going wonky could be pulling in the modulator because they have their foot to the floor but the engine is de-rating so it never gets to a high enough RPM to make it to high gear
-Christopher
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:51 PM   #20
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this engine **should** automatically deactivate inactive conditions.. but it might help to disconnect both batteries.. and then re-connect.. id also check that the ECM fuses are good in the fuse block and any you find in-line as well.
-Christopher
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