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Old 07-02-2019, 06:53 PM   #21
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It does look like a points style distributor, so yes ballest resister

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Old 07-02-2019, 07:34 PM   #22
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Have you tried "hot wiring" it with a wire from the positive battery terminal to the positive side of the coil? If it indeed has a point style distributor and both the points and condenser are good you will have spark at the spark plugs when you try to start the engine with the ignition switch. If the 'll darling fires up you will need to remove the jumper to shut the engine off. Without going into the ballast resister and it's function, if the engine starts with the hot wire job it would point to the BR being bad. If it still does not start (have spark at plugs) I'd be checking the points and condenser as the likely cause of no start'
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Uhh ... flat-front buses go *WAY* back to the 30's.
Maybe so, but I've never seen a 1970s flat-nose gasser skoolie. Guess I should have clarified that point. Only flat-noses I saw dating before that were built for transit or cross-country runs, like a Greyhound. (Think GM 'fishbowl' models, which were two-stroke Detroit powered) I've definitely not seen even one of these with a gasser. Not saying they weren't built, but they have to be pretty rare, I've never seen one. Apparently there were a few built though, according to WOW. Must be dependent on local budgets or contract suppliers?

Fact remains, the intake manifold casting number puts the engine pretty much in the middle of the 1968 model year. Not impossible it's a 460, but not likely unless it came from a Lincoln. Rocker cover design doesn't jive with a 385 series engine either. I'm not a Ford expert, mind you, but with the model year indicated by the intake casting number that obviously does not jive with the vehicle's model year, I'm leaning toward this being an FT engine, 361 or 391, maybe even a 330.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:36 AM   #24
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The ballast is attached to the engine compartment, but not connected by wires to anything?

When did the engine run last?

What troubleshooting have you done so far?

What makes you think it’s an electrical problem?

Excuse me if these have been asked/answered
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Maybe so, but I've never seen a 1970s flat-nose gasser skoolie. Guess I should have clarified that point. Only flat-noses I saw dating before that were built for transit or cross-country runs, like a Greyhound. (Think GM 'fishbowl' models, which were two-stroke Detroit powered) I've definitely not seen even one of these with a gasser. Not saying they weren't built, but they have to be pretty rare, I've never seen one. Apparently there were a few built though, according to WOW. Must be dependent on local budgets or contract suppliers?

Fact remains, the intake manifold casting number puts the engine pretty much in the middle of the 1968 model year. Not impossible it's a 460, but not likely unless it came from a Lincoln. Rocker cover design doesn't jive with a 385 series engine either. I'm not a Ford expert, mind you, but with the model year indicated by the intake casting number that obviously does not jive with the vehicle's model year, I'm leaning toward this being an FT engine, 361 or 391, maybe even a 330.
I think some of the confusion on this one is assuming it is a skoolie, in other words someone's conversion of a school bus into an RV. I has all the attributes of a Wanderlodge. These were made by Blue Bird as an RV on a school bus chassis and body. So a factory made skoolie. These were gassers built in the 70's using the flatfront body.

Look closely at the photos and were school bus windows would have been the sheet metal there is riveted and has a row of rivets mid way up. This is most likely a factory job. Also the window frames are 1970's, and just like the ones in my bus, which was a factory conversion built in 1971. I have seen these windows in other older RV's. Just more clues as to origin on this one.

As to the engine, anything could have been changed as time has gone by, engines wear out and whatever is handy gets put in.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:35 PM   #26
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I found an eBay listing for a cleaned-up original intake for a 1975 361/391 Ford FT engine, and I wonder now if the angle in OP's pic simply APPEARS to show 'C872', maybe it's really 'C8TE'. 'T' being heavy truck, 'E' being ENGINE part.

The intake manifold casting # shown in OP's pic has a sketchy angle, appearing to read 'C872 9425C', but '7' and '2' don't appear to trace to anything. Question for the OP here, could that actually be C8TE 9425C? Because that would make it a 1968 FT engine, confirming my suspicions. Doesn't prove displacement, only the engine type. Only block casting number will show actual displacement. That first four could even be 'C3TE', making this engine a 1963, not a 1968.

Third-party sources show that five-bolt rocker covers are also an FE / FT engine characteristic. A 429 or 460 would have seven rocker cover bolts. If this engine's rocker covers are five-bolt, mystery partially solved in that it's not a 460, but you still have to figure out which FE/FT engine it is. Model year of 1968 narrows it down a bit. Logic points to an FT engine, the most likely choice for such a vehicle, as they were factory equipped with them. Doesn't solve the mystery of why OP shows a 4-pin Mopar-style BR, when no information readily available shows any Ford using such a unit.

Here are a couple pics to illustrate my point. OP's pic first, the 361/391 eBay intake second. The 'D5TE' on the eBay part decodes as D = 70s, 5 = fifth year, making it a 1975. The 'T' is Heavy Truck, the 'E' is simply Engine parts. The '9425' is 'Manifolds and Clamps', the 'C' denotes third design. Local dealer has confirmed the first two digits in the OP's intake manifold casting indeed decode to 'C' - 1960s, '8' = 1968.

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I blew up the date/source pertinent portion of the intake casting number, and this is what I see... The 'year-within-decade' digit could still be either 8 or 3, though I'm still leaning toward 1968. Definitely appears this could be a misstamped / damaged 'T' and E'.

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It very much appears this engine is neither a 460, nor is it original to the OP's vehicle, which means the ballast resistor pictured may very well not be either, as it appears to be a Mopar design. This is all, of course, presuming the OP's bus is a 1979 model as stated. They were indeed built in 1968 and 1969. Folks get model years and engine displacements wrong all the time.

Also, the eBay manifold has a lip where it joins the head. This shows the mounting surface for the rocker covers is split between the edge of the intake and head, putting the joint partially to the inside of the rocker cover, a dead giveaway as an FE/FT engine. Meaning the edge of the intake manifold juts up under the edge of the rocker cover, making it necessary to remove the rocker cover to remove the intake manifold.

Could still yet be an FE engine, but I seriously doubt anyone is going to put an FE in a bus for kicks. An FT, on the other hand, is a near-direct replacement for factory equipment for the typical Ford gassers in an older Wanderlodge, as BSF has noted.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:37 PM   #27
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dang? i almost missed this whole discussion?
sorry.
i think the easiest solution for any old ford motor including the FE or whatever is to get rid of the points distributor and upgrade to the DURASPARK 2 distributor and you lose the relay block cause its in the new distributor cap and you only need an ignition wire from the starter solenoid to the coil.
i have a 77 ford truck with a 400\6.6 in it that i did this upgrade on and it runs better gets a little better gas mileage except for the upgrades i did in the motor and once you do get it running a good carb is always a headache saver.
i can get pictures tomorrow morning.
points and relays can be a real pain if you dont know how to diagnose or fix especially setting on the side of the road.
in the few pics i had time to look at it looks like the wiring is all over the place on an extremely hot motor.
if nothing is melted and shorted yet it will just be a matter of time before your chasing wire again.
THAT relay block isnt an old ford part?
where is it located under the hood?
to ID your engine easily look at bell housing bolt patterns it definitely has to be a big block but the FE blocks had a few bolt holes moved around from the 460 blocks.
i would upgrade the distributor,wires, plugs and coil and start it up.
Duraspark distributor about 60$ excel wires about 60$ excel plugs about 6$ each?
the results are worth the money and effort. There is better more expensive stuff at JEGS,SUMMITT, and others but the stuff i gave you prices on are from the normal big box stores.
good luck
have fun
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:06 PM   #28
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I’m attaching a pic of a porcelain junction block thingy... what is it? What wiring should be going to it? I’m having trouble starting my bus and getting no power to the coil. Does this porcelain doo dad play a role in starting the bus? Thanks for any help or advice
OK i am at my big computer now and just went through your pics.
disregard my last post please except for where that terminal block relay is located?
You already have the distributor i mentioned and before you do rotor button,cap,plugs and wires?
you need to look at the starter solenoid mounted on the fire wall just under the hood above right or left tire.
i am to tech challenged to post pics with this computer but if you will PM me with a phone number i will text you pics of what i am describing.
To me that block relay looks like something i have seen off road jeep owners trying to do when they upgrade to a GM distributor but they usually put them on a board to help dissipate heat.
One more question to try to help?
Was this thing running before the wiring was disconnected|misplaced?
Are or you trying to get this thing running and just ran across this wiring block that wasnt connected?
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:10 PM   #29
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the power to the coil comes from the starter solenoid and the solenoid is actually branded I.
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:40 PM   #30
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with that set up you should also have an ignition module that is sealed and you need to know how to test it or its about a 20$ part to know if its it or not but piece of mind knowing? but then again yoou will get bad parts .
good luck
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
THAT relay block isnt an old ford part?
I've been saying THAT from the get-go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
to ID your engine easily look at bell housing bolt patterns it definitely has to be a big block but the FE blocks had a few bolt holes moved around from the 460 blocks.
i would upgrade the distributor,wires, plugs and coil and start it up.
Duraspark distributor about 60$ excel wires about 60$ excel plugs about 6$ each?
the results are worth the money and effort. There is better more expensive stuff at JEGS,SUMMITT, and others but the stuff i gave you prices on are from the normal big box stores.
I agree with upgrading to electronic ignition, but as I'm sure you know, with Ford (at least in my experience), you have to know exactly what engine you have before buying parts. Unless I'm misinformed, the various Ford engine designs don't interchange dizzys and such.

I'm 99% sure this is an FE/FT engine, leaning toward a 391, as they were factory equipment in some buses back then. Since you seem more familiar with Ford than I am (most of my contribution to this post is based on research), perhaps you might check into what I've dug up and see if that holds water.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:59 PM   #32
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most do for the big block series and including 351m/400m debate if it has the big block bolt pattern on the transmission? without an adapter plate then it is not an FE? i can be proven wrong and learn myself
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:11 PM   #33
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most do for the big block series and including 351m/400m debate if it has the big block bolt pattern on the transmission? without an adapter plate then it is not an FE? i can be proven wrong and learn myself
According to what I've dug up, the FT's main difference is four engine mount bolt holes as opposed to the FE's three. Other than that, they appear to be the same, and something I read indicates the 391 is simply named so, that it is basically a 390. Not sure if that's true, though. I have, however, run across a listing for small, medium, and big-block versions of various engines, which is curious.

But looking at the rocker covers, they don't look like 429/460 pieces, either. Without a clear picture including all the bolts, it's hard to say, but they appear to be five-bolt units, which should be an FE/FT engine, the reason I'm confident that is what the OP has. One identifying characteristic of each V8 engine design Ford has manufactured tends to be the number of rocker cover bolts, a minor clue in the grand scheme of things, but I've uncovered quite a bit just from the intake manifold casting number, which puts it in the ballpark. Just hoping you can confirm.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:50 PM   #34
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I do wonder if the OP is trying to get it running for the first time? Hope he chimes in on that.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:32 PM   #35
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lets hear back from the OP about what you posted and what i posted.
we can only guess and assume at this point?
The OP was able to post here and post PICs here so he can do the research for his problems but just needed help in the right direction.
Yes you did help in the engine ID direction and yes thats what the OP needs to KNOW to even start his quest in getting this thing started.
old school electrical before computer stuff in the 70s was pretty basic compared to now.
Thanks for the research but I in my own opinion think the OP needs guidance on how to figure out what he has which you have done cheesewagoon but not us to do it for him. You can find it and i can find it on the WWW and i think the OP will be better served buy advice of where to look and what to research some stuff just like the new stuff dont work like they say in the books or whatever your guide is like the WWW?
if you dont know what your doing engine wise?
its easy to get advice from someone that has done
better to have them there when you are doing it.
it.
For the OP its a long road ahead of you but if you do the research.
Learn exactly what you have then we all can give better advice
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:48 PM   #36
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I do wonder if the OP is trying to get it running for the first time? Hope he chimes in on that.
yeah man i do to?
whole different set of questions i have if it is? WONT BE THE FIRST TIME BUT CAUSE IT GOT WHEREVER IT IS ? And expected to run again after how many years of being parked??
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