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08-08-2019, 04:37 PM
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#21
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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If we use the internet as the metaphor.
Imagine it’s the current time.
Imagine that the modular technology exists to connect remotely to the internet and have Gigabit speeds. Now also imagine that some Chinese companies are peddling dial up modems to people who don’t understand the internet.
This is what these solar generator companies are doing. Dial up.
My first solar system can do 200 amps continuous and is 1200 watt hours. And puts out 2000 watts 200amps 115v AC for several hours per charge. Total cost. $600.
I’m currently building a new system for my skoolie. I have a little more investment because this time I fused everything and have multiple battery banks of different chemistry [agm and LiFePo4]
I advise everyone who asks to shy away from all in one units. Modular is much less expensive. Much easier to repair and troubleshoot and out performs any all in one.
I want everyone to have good information about how to build cheap, easy solar systems that are flexible and easily expanded.
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08-08-2019, 07:59 PM
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#22
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
y first solar system can do 200 amps continuous and is 1200 watt hours. And puts out 2000 watts 200amps 115v AC for several hours per charge. Total cost. $600.
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How big is that system? How much does it weigh?
If it's light and compact, good for you. I don't have the ability or understanding to put that together, and I have been trying to learn enough to do it for literally a year. The result has been more confusion and still no solar. I very well may end up with something in the ballpark of what you have, but that will be because I've learned by messing around with the cheap setup I have now.
As far as China goes, the non Chinese companies that are making these are charging double what the Chinese ones cost.
And if it's NOT light and compact, which I am imagining, for $600, it is not, then it's not what I'm looking for at all.
And I really don't mean to be rude but I'm the one who started the thread, and the part I missed, I guess, is the part where I asked. I asked if I was approaching the concept of watt hours in the right way. I didn't ask what everyone thinks about the fact I'm playing around with an all in one unit. But thanks for the information.
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08-08-2019, 08:12 PM
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#23
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebuild
How big is that system? How much does it weigh?
If it's light and compact, good for you. I don't have the ability or understanding to put that together, and I have been trying to learn enough to do it for literally a year. The result has been more confusion and still no solar. I very well may end up with something in the ballpark of what you have, but that will be because I've learned by messing around with the cheap setup I have now.
As far as China goes, the non Chinese companies that are making these are charging double what the Chinese ones cost.
And if it's NOT light and compact, which I am imagining, for $600, it is not, then it's not what I'm looking for at all.
And I really don't mean to be rude but I'm the one who started the thread, and the part I missed, I guess, is the part where I asked. I asked if I was approaching the concept of watt hours in the right way. I didn't ask what everyone thinks about the fact I'm playing around with an all in one unit. But thanks for the information.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
If we use the internet as the metaphor.
Imagine it’s the current time.
Imagine that the modular technology exists to connect remotely to the internet and have Gigabit speeds. Now also imagine that some Chinese companies are peddling dial up modems to people who don’t understand the internet.
This is what these solar generator companies are doing. Dial up.
My first solar system can do 200 amps continuous and is 1200 watt hours. And puts out 2000 watts 200amps 115v AC for several hours per charge. Total cost. $600.
I’m currently building a new system for my skoolie. I have a little more investment because this time I fused everything and have multiple battery banks of different chemistry [agm and LiFePo4]
I advise everyone who asks to shy away from all in one units. Modular is much less expensive. Much easier to repair and troubleshoot and out performs any all in one.
I want everyone to have good information about how to build cheap, easy solar systems that are flexible and easily expanded.
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What kind/quantity of panels are you running for less than $600. Sounds like a deal no one else can do.
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08-08-2019, 09:48 PM
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#25
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Arkansas for now..
Posts: 13
Year: 1998
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
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Wow! That is an awesome setup and thank you. I have been wanting to try to tap into solar myself. CMORGANSKOOL I don't suppose you remember what went into your first system? The one you said was about $600.00? I wish I could add to the discussion but when it comes to solar I am pretty clueless but willing to learn.
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08-08-2019, 10:50 PM
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#26
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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About $930, but to be fair that very thorough list does include some things that I also had to buy, like cables and the like, that are hard to keep track of costwise. It's nice to see so much detail, very helpful to those who know what to do with it.
My point is this: even if you GAVE me all those components, I wouldn't have a clue how to configure them. If you posted exact instructions for me, someone else would come along and insist some part of what you said was wrong and add some other step to confuse the whole thing. Then, most likely, a third person would weigh in on how what the first two proposed was flawed. Then I'd see some YouTube video throwing even more confusion into the mix
I would also be carrying 70 pounds of batteries, which is light compared to other setups I've seen, but is still 60 pounds more than I'm currently carrying.
There are many ways to do things. I'm not trying to talk you into doing it my way. I admire your way; I'd do it that way if it made sense for me. Right now, it doesn't.
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08-08-2019, 11:00 PM
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#27
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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Yes the bones of that system
1 panel $115 1 controller $20 1 battery $170 and 1 inverter $150 and about 25” of cable and 10 connectors $25 will get you started and power a fridge or lights and a tv or power tools while building. It will run 30 amp continuous for 20 hours and 200 amp surge. It runs my 5000 btu Ac for about 45 minutes and recharges in about 4 hours. And is fully expandable when you get around to it. $480-500 and you can source cheaper panels and parts. When I started the skoolie system I used all these parts but added a second battery bank and fuses and switches. For a comfortable system that will run everything like a house you need 24v 500ah 12000 watt hours of lithium storage a 24v inverter and about 3000 watts of solar and a much larger mppt charge controller. About 1000lbs of agm batteries or 500lbs of lithium. For my bus I’m going to have about 400ah 12v
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08-08-2019, 11:06 PM
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#28
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebuild
About $930, but to be fair that very thorough list does include some things that I also had to buy, like cables and the like, that are hard to keep track of costwise. It's nice to see so much detail, very helpful to those who know what to do with it.
My point is this: even if you GAVE me all those components, I wouldn't have a clue how to configure them. If you posted exact instructions for me, someone else would come along and insist some part of what you said was wrong and add some other step to confuse the whole thing. Then, most likely, a third person would weigh in on how what the first two proposed was flawed. Then I'd see some YouTube video throwing even more confusion into the mix
I would also be carrying 70 pounds of batteries, which is light compared to other setups I've seen, but is still 60 pounds more than I'm currently carrying.
There are many ways to do things. I'm not trying to talk you into doing it my way. I admire your way; I'd do it that way if it made sense for me. Right now, it doesn't.
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If you bought the components all you have to do is assemble them and keep the colors the same. Solar panel-charge controller-battery-inverter. You need an electric drill and a wrench set a stripper crimper and some electric tape to assemble it
Here is a great video on how to do it
https://youtu.be/FY6dnQAoMzc
Will has a best seller book on mobile solar.
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08-08-2019, 11:30 PM
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#29
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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The amazon agm batteries are 63.93 Lbs. You could get away with one and a small pure sine wave inverter 3.37lbs and the controller is less than a pound. So total system weight under 70lbs. I’ve used this inverter for charging my phone and laptop and powering electronics for over a year. And that’s the proper size inverter for that one battery. The flex panels are 5lbs each but don’t last as long as glass panels because they’re not thermodynamically efficient. Rich solar 100w panels are $80 and well made. 15.5 lbs each
GoWISE Power PS1001 Pure SINE Wave Inverter 600W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0131GJ5X2..._kxptDbP439A3E
Richsolar 100 Watt 12 Volt Monocrystalline Solar Panel with MC4 Connectors 12 Volt Battery Charging RV, Boat, Off Grid (100W) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DNMY6N4..._kFptDbHCJFRYD
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08-09-2019, 12:11 AM
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#30
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,968
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
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Firebuild - It may help to post which solar generator you have.
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08-09-2019, 05:01 AM
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#31
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The West
Posts: 1,210
Year: 1998
Coachwork: MCI
Chassis: 102 EL3
Engine: DD 60
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Uhm... I'm pretty sure I don't understand correctly. The math doesn't work here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
My first solar system can do 200 amps continuous and is 1200 watt hours. And puts out 2000 watts 200amps 115v AC for several hours per charge.
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It appears the capability of the solar charging system and the output of the battery/inverter is kind of mixed together here.
200 watts of panels under ideal conditions can probably produce something around 16 amps @ 12VDC. So, I'll assume the "puts out" bit is not talking about the solar charging system but the battery bank and inverter.
I'm really not sure what is meant by "2000 watts 200amps 115v AC".
It seems we are talking about an SLA 12 VDC battery bank of 200 Ah (20 hour rate). 50% of that is usable. Using the manufacturers specs, the battery is capable of 60 Ah at a C1 rate. So, a bank of two is capable of 120 Ah (@ C1). However; again using the manufacturer specs, that battery is only able to maintain 12VDC at C1 for about ten minutes (and down to about 11.5VDC at 20 minutes). The inverter is going to drop out at some point. Of course, operating at C1 is NOT going to be good for lifespan of the batteries.
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08-09-2019, 08:11 AM
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#32
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
Firebuild - It may help to post which solar generator you have.
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Help who? My question was answered within the first three posts! LOL.
I don't really want to open that door.
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08-09-2019, 08:12 AM
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#33
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo
Uhm... I'm pretty sure I don't understand correctly. The math doesn't work here.
It appears the capability of the solar charging system and the output of the battery/inverter is kind of mixed together here.
200 watts of panels under ideal conditions can probably produce something around 16 amps @ 12VDC. So, I'll assume the "puts out" bit is not talking about the solar charging system but the battery bank and inverter.
I'm really not sure what is meant by "2000 watts 200amps 115v AC".
It seems we are talking about an SLA 12 VDC battery bank of 200 Ah (20 hour rate). 50% of that is usable. Using the manufacturers specs, the battery is capable of 60 Ah at a C1 rate. So, a bank of two is capable of 120 Ah (@ C1). However; again using the manufacturer specs, that battery is only able to maintain 12VDC at C1 for about ten minutes (and down to about 11.5VDC at 20 minutes). The inverter is going to drop out at some point. Of course, operating at C1 is NOT going to be good for lifespan of the batteries.
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My point, illustrated. 
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08-09-2019, 08:16 AM
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#34
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL
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It's so interesting you keep bringing up Will Prowse; he has several reviews of solar generators, and though he points out the flaws, they're not negative, and certainly not dismissive.
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08-09-2019, 10:04 AM
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#35
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,968
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebuild
Help who? My question was answered by the third post LOL.
I don't really want to open that door.
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Never mind 
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08-09-2019, 11:23 AM
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#36
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo
Uhm... I'm pretty sure I don't understand correctly. The math doesn't work here.
It appears the capability of the solar charging system and the output of the battery/inverter is kind of mixed together here.
200 watts of panels under ideal conditions can probably produce something around 16 amps @ 12VDC. So, I'll assume the "puts out" bit is not talking about the solar charging system but the battery bank and inverter.
I'm really not sure what is meant by "2000 watts 200amps 115v AC".
It seems we are talking about an SLA 12 VDC battery bank of 200 Ah (20 hour rate). 50% of that is usable. Using the manufacturers specs, the battery is capable of 60 Ah at a C1 rate. So, a bank of two is capable of 120 Ah (@ C1). However; again using the manufacturer specs, that battery is only able to maintain 12VDC at C1 for about ten minutes (and down to about 11.5VDC at 20 minutes). The inverter is going to drop out at some point. Of course, operating at C1 is NOT going to be good for lifespan of the batteries.
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Just demonstrating a basic system can probably do what they want with minimal equipment and cost. I've used my 2kw inverter all day with power tools (angle grinder, circular saw, jig saw, sawzaw) all very power hungry and with the 1 panel in direct sun the battery maintains 13-14 volts. Night time is different, you have to be much more conservative with power use with a small battery bank. It will run a van or shorty electronic systems sufficiently.
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08-09-2019, 11:24 AM
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#37
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Will is a professional "social media influencer" and YouTuber.
His stuff is fine for beginners to use to help educate themselves at the 101 level.
He is not technical, nor would his "profession" imply objectivity.
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08-09-2019, 12:05 PM
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#38
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US nomadic
Posts: 556
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Lewis
Chassis: Ford E350
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
Will is a professional "social media influencer" and YouTuber.
His stuff is fine for beginners to use to help educate themselves at the 101 level.
He is not technical, nor would his "profession" imply objectivity.
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John, the problem is, I know you mean to educate but you are TOO technical. I learn nothing from your posts because they just make me feel dumb. You assume I understand concepts I've never even heard of, and that turns me off before I even get started. It's like trying to tackle Shakespeare in a first level ESL class. The disdain that drips from the quotation marks you placed around the word "profession" permeates every post you make and sends a message that, if you're not willing or able to learn this, you don't deserve solar power. Not a great way to educate.
Will speaks a language I understand. I don't NEED your level of technical information to have working solar power.
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08-09-2019, 12:33 PM
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#39
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The West
Posts: 1,210
Year: 1998
Coachwork: MCI
Chassis: 102 EL3
Engine: DD 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebuild
My point, illustrated. |
I wasn't sure what this meant until I saw your reply to John. I now believe it means that I presented too much technical info.
I understand. I was at the bottom of the "electronics" learning curve once. It is a fairly long and difficult learning curve but it can certainly be conquered at least to the point that you have identified - knowing what you NEED to know but without having to know everything about everything.
The problem with the posts similar to the one I addressed is that inaccurate information is being presented and some people believe that it is possible, attempt to duplicate it, waste money and time, and end up frustrated and convinced that solar (or whatever) doesn't work. Part of the learning curve is understanding these concepts because you need to be able to spot inaccuracies so you don't get sucked down rabbit holes. This happens all the time in the aviation industry. Every few years, someone comes along with a new motor claiming that it makes 200 HP and burns 3 gph (gallons per hour). People get all excited because they don't understand that this is not even remotely possible. Those in the know understand that it is snake oil.
There is no one right answer. That's why we have Ford and Chevy, Cessna and Piper, etc. There is a "best" answer if you can adequately define ALL of your requirements and constraints. Most people cannot, largely because they don't know what they don't know. So, achieving a reasonably good solution based on what you do know is the goal. Sometimes it won't be possible (I need 20,000 watt hours of battery capacity, recharge from 50% SOC to 100% SOC) every day from solar using 12 sq. in. of solar panels, cost less than $25 and weight less than 5lb). I'm happy to give you some ideas, send me a PM with your list if you like.
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08-09-2019, 12:39 PM
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#40
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Of course not everyone wants to learn enough to get optimal value.
It's not that I have disdain for that profession, but it certainly is a suspect source if you are looking for purchasing advice.
YouTube itself as a medium for self-education requires a high degree of skepticism, and ultimately tech knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff.
But those who have money to spare to throw at scammers, can just follow the path of least resistance and let themselves get "influenced", why not?
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