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10-07-2021, 09:12 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Stephens City, VA
Posts: 12
Year: 1977
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: 6N71 Detroit Diesel
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Duplex vs. single strand marine grade wiring
Quick question for the Skoolie brain trust. I'll be finishing the "deconstruction phase" soon and next phase will be framing & wiring. I see most people running single strand 12V wire, even with return to ground wire loops. The question is why? Wouldn't the same wire type/gauge in a duplex housing be way easier? Not to mention the protection the sheathing itself provides. Seems like a no brainer to me, but since I don't see other's using it there must be a reason. Enlighten me.
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10-07-2021, 09:34 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Cerrillos, NM
Posts: 393
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Front Engine
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddwbeagles
Quick question for the Skoolie brain trust. I'll be finishing the "deconstruction phase" soon and next phase will be framing & wiring. I see most people running single strand 12V wire, even with return to ground wire loops. The question is why? Wouldn't the same wire type/gauge in a duplex housing be way easier? Not to mention the protection the sheathing itself provides. Seems like a no brainer to me, but since I don't see other's using it there must be a reason. Enlighten me.
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It’s usually easy to find single conductor wire, I think that’s probably most of it. Certainly for me it was. I think dual conductor wire would make for a cleaner installation and work fine however. Could be cost related too.
14/2 romex like people use in houses (because it’s solid core, single strand) probably shouldn’t be used for DC and most of the other multi conductor wire that I find locally is small gauge stuff for sprinklers and things, or SJ or SO but I feel like that stuff is a lot more expensive (and takes up more space) than thhn that I used.
Best part of skoolie life is that you decide!
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10-07-2021, 09:50 AM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,570
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddwbeagles
Quick question for the Skoolie brain trust. I'll be finishing the "deconstruction phase" soon and next phase will be framing & wiring. I see most people running single strand 12V wire, even with return to ground wire loops. The question is why? Wouldn't the same wire type/gauge in a duplex housing be way easier? Not to mention the protection the sheathing itself provides. Seems like a no brainer to me, but since I don't see other's using it there must be a reason. Enlighten me.
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(Duplex wire?)
Are you asking about tin & talcum coated two conductor wire for marine applications?
Expensive. No bare ground wire.
Provides what additional protection?
Whatever you choose should be inside of conduit OR approved to be secured free-air (exposed or concealed).
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10-07-2021, 09:53 AM
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#4
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Stephens City, VA
Posts: 12
Year: 1977
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: 6N71 Detroit Diesel
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Clarification. Single strand was a poor choice of wording. I should of said individual thhn stranded wires of each color verses that same wire (marine grade, thhn, in a duplex housing). It's actually cheaper per 1k' spool in that configuration. $.228 (x2 for red And black) p/ft individual wire vs. $. 38 for same wire in duplex sleeve. (14g prices listed BTW)
But you answered the question that there were no real drawbacks going that route.
Thanks
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10-07-2021, 09:55 AM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Stephens City, VA
Posts: 12
Year: 1977
Coachwork: Crown
Engine: 6N71 Detroit Diesel
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DeMac - Yes, that is the style. No ground? It's a two wire set up right? Red is power lead, black is neutral or ground. You lost me there.
And good Lord the pic you posted is outrageously expensive!!!
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10-07-2021, 10:23 AM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,570
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddwbeagles
DeMac - Yes, that is the style. No ground? It's a two wire set up right? Red is power lead, black is neutral or ground. You lost me there.
And good Lord the pic you posted is outrageously expensive!!!
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Two conductors, really. Copper, jacketed separately. No color requirement for conducting electricity. Two hots ok, too (switch-loop). Conduction, +/= requires only Copper. (Fe, AL, Ag, etc)
Only one Earth, however. So, one ground on this planet. Bare conductors ought to be used for grounding, only. Not conducting. (So, no bare grounding wire.)
12v, two conductors is perfect
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10-07-2021, 10:28 AM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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I bought two boxes of class 3 speaker wire. On is 14/2 and the other is 12/2. It's perfect for LED lighting. Black & red in a white plastic jacket. I use this stuff on 70 volt sou d systems and cl3 is OK to run in walls
Amazon
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10-07-2021, 12:09 PM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Posts: 542
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Girardin Microbird MB-IV
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: 7.3 Diesel
Rated Cap: 25
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If I could do over, I'd use the sheathed duplex It would avoid having to fuss with conduit or worry about chafing.
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10-07-2021, 12:39 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,712
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Do you mean romex? If not, I have no idea what duplex wire is. Is it just a fancy word for 2 stranded thhn wires in a jacket?
I used romex stranded 12/2 w/ground to wire up the air conditioner. It's ran in the walls without conduit next to the bus wires ran to the back.
I was told not to run solid wire, as the solid wire will have a greater chance of work hardening in a mobile environment, becoming brittle, and then breaking.
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10-07-2021, 12:44 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Posts: 542
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Girardin Microbird MB-IV
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: 7.3 Diesel
Rated Cap: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Do you mean romex? If not, I have no idea what duplex wire is. Is it just a fancy word for 2 stranded thhn wires in a jacket?
I used romex stranded 12/2 w/ground to wire up the air conditioner. It's ran in the walls without conduit next to the bus wires ran to the back.
I was told not to run solid wire, as the solid wire will have a greater chance of work hardening in a mobile environment, becoming brittle, and then breaking.
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Yes, I believe duplex the name for a sheathed, two wire conductor. Solid wire in homes, stranded in marine and mobile applications. I think Romex is a brand name, like Kleenex.
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10-07-2021, 02:59 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Do you mean romex? If not, I have no idea what duplex wire is. Is it just a fancy word for 2 stranded thhn wires in a jacket?
I used romex stranded 12/2 w/ground to wire up the air conditioner. It's ran in the walls without conduit next to the bus wires ran to the back.
I was told not to run solid wire, as the solid wire will have a greater chance of work hardening in a mobile environment, becoming brittle, and then breaking.
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I didn't know they made stranded romex. I use stranded M/C at work, 12-2 & 12-3 because it's easier to work with and I'm usually alone. I'm planning on using that on my bus
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10-07-2021, 03:06 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Near Flagstaff AZ
Posts: 1,951
Year: 1974
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
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As mentioned, I think the more frequent use of single conductor automotive primary wire is just that it's more easily available than 2-conductor jacketed automotive wire (GPT rated and such). I believe this to be because it's common in autos and RVs to use the chassis as a negative (usually) and to ground things locally, so you don't always need the second conductor unless you're doing home-run grounds. So, the GPT type wire is normally sold in single conductor rolls.
As far as 120V circuits go, the RVIA has approved "Romex" solid wire for quite a few years now and we've worked on old conversions with solid wire...and I've not seen any evidence of work hardening or failure in those.
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10-07-2021, 06:40 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Marine rated UL1426 105C wire is the way to go, especially for any exposed to the elements
Pacer is an excellent brand and often cheaper than Ancor.
http://www.bestboatwire.com/custom-cables
is a good source
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10-07-2021, 07:40 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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This is the low voltage wire I mentioned. It comes in a variety of different sizes and is perfect for LED lighting and other 12 volt loads. With the ground included, you can use any dimmer and also not worry about some phantom ground screw somewhere in your ceiling coming loose. Driving lights, porch lights, diesel heaters....I'm a solder and shrink tube guy but good quality crimp connectors would be fine.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095187HLD...ing=UTF8&psc=1
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10-07-2021, 08:50 PM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,570
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Pacer
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
Marine rated UL1426 105C wire is the way to go, especially for any exposed to the elements
Pacer is an excellent brand and often cheaper than Ancor.
http://www.bestboatwire.com/custom-cables
is a good source
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Yes, I agree with John. Pacer (FL made, I believe) has good stuff, not speaker wire. It is rated for AC & DC, up to 600v. Nasty environments, sump pumps, diesel transfer, chicken poo... $0.85/ft (@250') the screenshot is from thier website. Idk, however, how thier factory direct retail compares to the resellers' prices.
https://www.pacergroup.net/duplex-cable-12-awg/
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10-08-2021, 08:04 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,712
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwnielsen
I didn't know they made stranded romex. I use stranded M/C at work, 12-2 & 12-3 because it's easier to work with and I'm usually alone. I'm planning on using that on my bus
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Couldn't tell ya where it came from. Was laying in the attic. I thought it was good at the time because it was 12/2 stranded and the ground was insulated vs bare like in normal romex. Probably not "romex" brand, but duplex wire, or is it triplex with the 3 wires?
Regardless, it doesn't matter, as it's been installed for over 5 years and isn't about to be removed.
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10-08-2021, 08:05 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,712
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor
As far as 120V circuits go, the RVIA has approved "Romex" solid wire for quite a few years now and we've worked on old conversions with solid wire...and I've not seen any evidence of work hardening or failure in those.
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Well that's good news I guess. Probably stick with the stranded as it's way easier to pull and lay, but it's nice to know solid wire won't fail in a mobile situation.
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10-08-2021, 10:10 AM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,075
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000, 40' MPV
Engine: 5.9 Cummins/B300 trans
Rated Cap: U/K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Couldn't tell ya where it came from. Was laying in the attic. I thought it was good at the time because it was 12/2 stranded and the ground was insulated vs bare like in normal romex. Probably not "romex" brand, but duplex wire, or is it triplex with the 3 wires?
Regardless, it doesn't matter, as it's been installed for over 5 years and isn't about to be removed.
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Probably just cable if some type. 3C 12AWG, the class rating is what's important. I probably would have used it too. The "speaker" wire I mentioned earlier has some people dismissing it on name alone. It's rated for 150 vac, at an amperage determined by gauge. Standard THHN is good to 600 volt. I'm using it for 12 vdc and in all honesty, it's overkill. Over on Facebook someone asked about torquing wire connections. I mentioned I have a torque screwdriver and only torque circuit breakers when the specs require it (main lugs entirely different). Now everybody with a 30 amp motor home is bying a torque screwdriver.
Common sense and the ability to think outside the box are key to these projects
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10-08-2021, 11:29 AM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Don’t tell DeMac, but I used 12 gauge extension cord for my 12 volt wiring ;)
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10-08-2021, 12:52 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,570
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Don’t tell DeMac, but I used 12 gauge extension cord for my 12 volt wiring ;)
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Ha.
I know not.
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